Tango01 | 14 Jan 2023 8:57 p.m. PST |
… War as it was happening? "The American Civil War burned itself into the American identity as the Union and Confederacy fought across large swathes of the country and an estimated 600,000 people died, more US casualties than in any war before or since.
For the rest of the world, the stakes were much lower. The US had not yet fully grown into the economic and military power it would become in the 20th century. While its internal conflict was often reported in the global press and was the subject of academic interest, it was not a vital national security concern. What did outside observers, particularly those in the UK, think of the conflict?…" Main page
link
Armand |
donlowry | 15 Jan 2023 9:46 a.m. PST |
The photo caption claims the unit in the photo is: The Ringgold Light Artillery Battery of the Union Army on drill, c.1860 1. The war didn't start until 1861 2. The unit shown is obviously an infantry unit, with muskets, not cannon. |
14Bore | 15 Jan 2023 10:44 a.m. PST |
Did read the link. On another matter seems the British officer in the movie Gettysburg was real but he was only on a vacation as a tourist not on any official capacity. Though did nothing to correct those who just assumed he was their officially. |
ScottWashburn | 15 Jan 2023 11:56 a.m. PST |
In general the European powers did not think much of the American armies, either the men or the leadership. The one exception was the American cavalry's abilities as scouts and screens for the main army. The Europeans were quite impressed with that and even admitted that the Americans were far better than their own cavalry in that role. |
Frederick | 15 Jan 2023 2:02 p.m. PST |
Agreed – while Lieutenant Colonel Freemantle, late of the Coldstream Guards, was at Gettysburg he was on a leave of absence from official duties in Gibralter and as I recall toured the South in civilian attire As for the other European powers, despite the quote "The American Civil War was the wrangling of two armed mobs" to von Molkte the Elder, in fact it seemed that i) he never siad it, and ii) he spent a fair bit of time with McClellan discussing army-navy operations |
forrester | 15 Jan 2023 2:40 p.m. PST |
He wasnt the only British tourist. Last year I read the memoirs of George Bell, a young infantry officer in the Peninsula, but his fascinating story takes him far and wide, including a more senior role in the Crimea, and a little visit in 1861 to the USA where he is a guest of McCLennan, is taken on a tour of the lines, and in Washington meets Lincoln. He forms a very favourable inpression of the Union troops he sees, and of McClennan particularly. He is of the view that the Confederacy is ultimately going to lose having not achieved a decisive success at that point. Unfortunately he isn't given permission to travel south, and heads back up to Canada without witnessing any fighting. |
Blutarski | 15 Jan 2023 3:14 p.m. PST |
The Fremantle Diary is well worth reading. B |
Tango01 | 15 Jan 2023 3:23 p.m. PST |
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Extrabio1947 | 15 Jan 2023 5:01 p.m. PST |
"Our Man in Charleston: Britain's Secret Agent in the Civil War South" by Christopher Dickey is a very interesting read. It's more from a diplomatic as opposed to a military perspective. |
Father of Cats | 15 Jan 2023 5:17 p.m. PST |
The European powers may not have thought much of the armies or leaders, but they also misunderstood some fundamental aspects of the war, including the size of the armies, the geographical scope, and the difficulty with supply. |
42flanker | 15 Jan 2023 11:31 p.m. PST |
Agreed – while Lieutenant Colonel Freemantle, late of the Coldstream Guards, was at Gettysburg he was on a leave of absence from official duties in Gibralter and as I recall toured the South in civilian attire -and certainly didn't ponce around in a silly cap and scarlet tunic, sipping tea from a china cup.
link THREE MONTHS IN THE SOUTHERN STATES: APRIL-JUNE, 1863. BY LIEUT.-COL. FREMANTLE. COLDSTREAM GUARDS. link |
Dagwood | 16 Jan 2023 4:03 a.m. PST |
Flashman was there as well … |
35thOVI | 16 Jan 2023 6:42 a.m. PST |
You sure that is not a photo of Flashman? |
donlowry | 16 Jan 2023 9:58 a.m. PST |
IIRC, the Prussian ambassador to the U.S. had some rather nice things to say about the Union armies at their final parade in Washington in '65. |
14Bore | 16 Jan 2023 1:59 p.m. PST |
Thanks, going to read that book |
Tango01 | 16 Jan 2023 3:31 p.m. PST |
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Legionarius | 16 Jan 2023 5:14 p.m. PST |
What a bloody brawl that was! |
GamesPoet | 16 Jan 2023 7:16 p.m. PST |
Note: The article with that photo says, "…he would most likely have been attired like the gent pictured here." So apparently it is not a picture of Fremantle. |
Dn Jackson | 17 Jan 2023 1:51 p.m. PST |
"In general the European powers did not think much of the American armies, either the men or the leadership. A lot of the British opinion on the war was crafted by the reporter William Howard Russel. He came over in 1861 and reported on First Bull Run and the chaos of the amateurs who ran the campaign. He left before the 1862 campaigns really got underway. His initial impression became the narrative without being modified by how the armies and leadership evolved. |
Tortorella | 17 Jan 2023 4:47 p.m. PST |
I have nothing other than my opinion on this, but I have often thought that the American armies went from rank amateurs to seasoned pros in a couple of years and by 1864, either side would have been a challenge for a British or European Army. Better cavalry and artillery, battle-tested large scale infantry operations over a wide variety of terrains, use of railroads, etc. The USA and CSA navies, however, were a different matter. None of the various riverine ironclads were likely to be a match for Warrior or her sister. |
42flanker | 17 Jan 2023 9:37 p.m. PST |
"So apparently it is not a picture of Fremantle." That is indeed a photograph of Fremantle |
GamesPoet | 18 Jan 2023 4:12 a.m. PST |
While having only pointed out what the article said, I am open to the idea that the photo could be. It'd be helpful to have additional(?) reference though. Photography at the time of the ACW is replete with claims of what was in a photo, including by the photographer them self, that have been shown to be inaccurate. As an example, see the historical efforts of William Frassanito bringing to light what was really in some photos taken during the ACW. |
Murvihill | 18 Jan 2023 7:12 a.m. PST |
The ACW armies were primed for combat in the US. Road networks were thinner than Europe, more rough terrain and wilderness, less good cavalry country. |
donlowry | 19 Jan 2023 12:45 p.m. PST |
Even the participants were mostly dependent on newspaper stories about how the war was going. How else, for instance, was Lee to learn about the campaigns in the West? Or Grant to learn what Lee was up to in Virginia? |
14Bore | 20 Jan 2023 6:33 p.m. PST |
100 pages down, finding it quite fascinating |