Erzherzog Johann | 25 Dec 2022 10:38 p.m. PST |
I was reading an old (1945) article my wife stumbled upon and found an interesting comment and an interesting footnote. The text refers to Kléber, who, "purchased a large number … of Negro slaves from Ethiopian caravans and made soldiers of them. The Twenty-first Half-Brigade of Light Infantry was so formed." The footnote reads: "In 1802-3 a battalion of Negro and Mulatto troops was formed from dischargees from English prisons, and attached to the engineering corps of the French army. The Negro officer in charge was one Hercules, who had distinguished himself in Italy and Egypt. With his account (ibid., II, 54-5) Fieffé presents an illustration of the uniform worn by this battalion. The "ibid" relates to Eugène Fieffé, Histoire des troupes étrangères au service de France, depuis leur origine jusqu'à nos jours et de tous les régiments levés dans les pays conquis sous la première république et l'empire (Paris 1854) Can anyone shed any light on this? It seems an interesting reference. Cheers, John |
von Winterfeldt | 26 Dec 2022 12:55 a.m. PST |
Lieber Erzherzog, Durchlaucht All those informations are glanced from the second volume of Fieffé, where he indeed states the the général en chef Kleber bought slave to complete and integrate them in the 21e demi brigade d'infanterie légère (so he did not form an entire regiment of coloured people but used them to fill the depleted ranks) also as for the pionniers noires – bataillon de pionniers noires, 3 companies, were formed in 1803 and passed into the service of the King of Naples 1806 as Royal Africain and indeed should have been commanded by a black officer named Hercule. Guy Dempsey propvides however other information in his superb Napoleon's Mercenaries, qas to say that the battalion was 1000 men strong and of 9 companies, the officer or chef de bataillon was Joseph Damingue or Domingue, also called Hercules a black from Cuba, more to be found in Dempsey pp. 222 – 224 |
Erzherzog Johann | 26 Dec 2022 2:29 a.m. PST |
Thanks, That's interesting corroboration. The French around that time is not an area I'm strong on, although when I read your post, it reminded me that I had heard about the Pioneers Noirs being transferred to Naples. It all makes sense :~) |
Cuprum2 | 26 Dec 2022 2:43 a.m. PST |
Perhaps here you will find answers to your questions: The French Army of the Orient 1798-1801: Napoleon's beloved 'Egyptians' link |
Brechtel198 | 26 Dec 2022 5:25 a.m. PST |
The French Army of the Orient is excellent as is Guy Dempsey's work. |
miniMo | 26 Dec 2022 9:49 a.m. PST |
I'm not familiar with that unit. If you haven't come across it yet, there was also the French Pionniers Noirs battalion which was transferred to Naples and became the 7th Regiment, Real Africano. At the time, wags commented that it went from being the worst unit in the best army to the best unit in the worst army. My thoughts on it being the best unit in the Neapolitan army came about from the core troops having gone through full French training and several years of service, not the slap-dash Neapolitan training. Also, the native Neapolitan troops were half conscripts and half convicts, and all eager to desert at the first opportunity. Black men speaking French with a Caribbean accent would have had a very hard time hiding from the gendarmes if they did try to desert, so they were quite reliable troops! I've painted this regiment for DBN, where I give it 'regular' status along with the Guard troops. The rest of the line regiments I treat as 'militia'. I've also painted this for a Silver Bayonet force. Troops who won't desert are good ones to assign to monster hunting special assignments. link I've also been including a scattering of black troops in my British units. Regiments that had been stationed in the West Indies recruited a fair number, plus any regiment might have some from blacks who happened to be in England from anywhere in the empire and took the shilling. link |
Royston Papworth | 26 Dec 2022 12:29 p.m. PST |
Is this the regiment that was known as the worst regiment in the French army and then the best regiment of the Neapolitan? |
Erzherzog Johann | 27 Dec 2022 12:56 a.m. PST |
Yes, according to miniMo above, it is that unit. I wonder if it was entirely fair, since Kléber seemed to think they were OK. Also, since slavery was being reintroduced around that time, maybe there was an element of racism in the comment? Cheers, John |
Murvihill | 27 Dec 2022 5:55 a.m. PST |
IIRC it was the 7th Neapolitan Regiment. The British had a couple West Indian Regiments that were made up of colored troops. The idea was they wouldn't die off from disease as quickly as troops from the home islands. |
miniMo | 27 Dec 2022 9:01 a.m. PST |
I'm sure there was a strong element of racism in the comment about the 7th. But the Revolutionary/Imperial army did promote on merit, and Thomas-Alexandre Dumas made it up to Brigadier General and General in Chief. (His son Alexandre being the notable author.) link |
Erzherzog Johann | 27 Dec 2022 1:04 p.m. PST |
Yes. Of course the revolution brought an end to slavery and thecsittingvin the assembly of black representatives from the French Caribbean colonies. That all ended with Napoleon (who also hated Dumas). |
miniMo | 28 Dec 2022 10:06 a.m. PST |
Ah, wasn't aware of Napoleon's response. |
robert piepenbrink | 28 Dec 2022 11:58 a.m. PST |
My understanding was that the Pionniers Noire were largely made up of troops who had taken the French side in Napoleon's reconquest of Haiti and reimposition of slavery. The French didn't altogether trust them, and on pretext of shipping them to the other side of the island sent them to France, where, as was pointed out, their options were more limited. |
Lilian | 28 Dec 2022 3:03 p.m. PST |
The Bataillon de Pionniers Noirs came rather from men from la Guadeloupe, the other colony who knew the abolition and an uprising, once in Italy it was completed by recruits they can find in France as the black political deportees from West Indies in particular former officers from Saint Domingue gathered in labor companies in Corsica link this one was not the only black unit in the French Army, even in Europe, between 1792 and 1815, another short-lived Battalion was raised to support Napoleon during the Hundred Days and contrary to that is usually repeated, that all the blacks were expelled from the French Army by the First Consul after 1802, there were still black and mulattos generals, officers NCO's soldiers in the ranks of the French Army regiments, including in Europe and not only in the 66e de ligne in the West Indies or as musicians drummers
the 7th from Naples is not a whole black unit and not to be mixed with its nucleus the Reale Africano coming from French West Indians |
DevoutDavout | 28 Dec 2022 3:13 p.m. PST |
I saw this plate in another board and I found it very interesting. link What is he holding? |
Lilian | 28 Dec 2022 3:28 p.m. PST |
rather off topic, it is the Royal Guard of the Kingdom of Italy, there were many black musicians among the regimental bands in European Armies, he has a kind of "chinese pavilion"-"chinese hat" despite coming from the Ottoman Turkish that can be observed in the regimental bands of that time and even until our days in some Armies, the Foreign Legion has still one
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DevoutDavout | 28 Dec 2022 3:37 p.m. PST |
Sorry to go off topic. Thanks for the answer, will have to look into that. |
Speculus | 28 Dec 2022 5:03 p.m. PST |
That instrument is also know as a "Jingling Johnny". They are still in use in military bands, especially in Germany and Chile. |