"US swaps stoner WNBA player for the "Merchant of Death"" Topic

Seems like an unequal trade. The US swapped international Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, aka "The Merchant of Death" who sold weapons to such lovely groups as Al Queda and the FARC, and who had conspired to commit mass casualty attacks on US citizens for….Britney Griner, the stoner WBNA athlete who was vocal about her dislike for the US and who was caught with weed in her vape while travelling to Russia for a basketball game.

Seems like an equal trade…glad to see US diplomacy is in good hands!

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Meanwhile Paul Whelan, ex marine remains a prisoner in Russia since 2018. Seems like Whelan should have been the first priority. More equivalent to the scumbag we traded back to the Russians. Brittany should have been a throw in. We did not seem to get a very good deal.

Obviously Whelan was the priority. He's the priority if he is innocent, as he claims, and he is the priority if he really is a spy. I think the Russians don't want to give him up easily. So that part I don't blame on the folks in DC.

But how would you feel if you were caught fair and square in a stupid mistake that got you in prison, and then you were freed in exchange for a guy who is certainly going to arrange lethality for America's enemies? Russian penal colonies are very, very bad, granted. But I'd never be able to look anyone in the eye again.

I am absolutely not in favor of vaping or marijuana, but I think it's going to far to call her a stoner – she has accomplished some things. And while dissing the US is distasteful, free speech is important and if the degree of the US government's protection of individuals is dependent on whether or not they have criticized the US then we do not have freedom of speech. So while those two circumstances are deplorable, they don't matter to policy.

What matters is that if this were some random young tourist caught with drugs they'd never get out. She's free because of her social status as a professional athlete. I'm not very happy about that.

But if it were me I don't know what I'd have to do with the rest of my life to justify the price paid by innocents somewhere for my release.

I think the fact she is black and a lesbian is more the reason Biden got her released.

I think it was the fact that the Russians said it would be her or no one might have had a little to do with it. So now it's not ok to get a fellow US citizen released? Maybe the objection is because she is black and a lesbian? A lot of empty souls here.

I'm happy for Brittany & I hope Paul comes home soon as well.

+1 machinehead

I also strongly suspect the treatment of Griner in Russia was politically motivated. So her release is even more important, than just simply she is a US citizen (which, not to minimize things, is also important).

Damon.

You all do know this guy (Whelan) was court-martialed for stealing from the us, did time and was given a bad conduct discharge. Then in the private sector he has lied about his jobs and education.

Maybe she will appreciate this country more after this. Yeah, right.

Yep, doesn't deserve to be called a Marine. Doesn't mean we should not keep trying to get him out too.

So, from now on, any time the Russians want one of their bad guys released from prison all they have to do is grab an American tourist and throw them in jail on trumped up charges. Have I got that right?

My point is: we got taken to the cleaners! In terms wargammers can understand. We traded a AP Hill, Pat Cleburne, or a Gordon, for a Union Captain. I don't buy, "the Russians wouldn't deal". You don't make the deal then! It's all or nothing, if you want your murderer back. It's called cojones.

And yes, I believe it was all for votes. The President was on TV within a few hours of the announcement, with Brittany's wife and the VP behind him. I believe it was all because she is a woman/gay/African American. He gets no points with his voters for the ex-marine.

Wonder if she will still not appear during the National Anthem in protest?

Robert Burke, yes, you are exactly right and it will not just be Russia.

Mad Anthony Schwartz,
You are absolutely correct. But there is the whining about everything done these days crowd.

Russia is growing more disgusting by the hour and deserves the worlds contempt. Mordor can enjoy their pariah status…

How exceptional.

So, from now on, any time the Russians want one of their bad guys released from prison all they have to do is grab an American tourist and throw them in jail on trumped up charges. Have I got that right?

That boat sailed along time ago and not just for Russia. The Russians were playing that game when they picked up Whelan in 2019 or at least the British Foreign Secretary of the time thought so. Picking up Griner wasn't a new thing. Though quite what leverage they thought they'd get with basketball player I don't know but then they thought they have Ukraine in 10-days. Whelan is either murkier than he looks or a bit of an idiot. Possibly both from whats in the Wikipedia article. I also wouldn't rule out the Russian's believing they have an individual who is more valuable than he truly is. The FSB has probably forever trashed the reputation it inherited from its forbearers with the absolute cluster-**** that was its assessment of pre-invasion Ukraine. Vranyo probably meant the then FSB leadership thought they'd picked the CIA's lead in Russia by the time the reports hit their desks for all we know. Not sure how politically partisan the choice is personally a minor professional sports star versus a convicted fraudster?

Worst trade EVER, and there have been a lot of REALLY bad ones.

Predictable.

think the fact she is black and a lesbian is more the reason Biden got her released.

I thought the same thing. But … Could you imagine the backlash from the vocal "woke"(?), BLM, etc., factions, etc. ? If an old white man who was there longer by years than Griner was released first.

I think it was the fact that the Russians said it would be her or no one might have had a little to do with it.

That may be true … ? I await further information. However she was busted for drugs. Whelan is supposed to be a spy(?). Maybe Putin is waiting for a bigger trade TBA in the future ? But once KGB … always KGB, IMO.

I don't buy, "the Russians wouldn't deal". You don't make the deal then! It's all or nothing

I tend to agree with that, but I await more details.

If one saw "Bridge of Spies" I think it was called. We needed the lawyer that Tom Hanks played. Sadly, he has passed. [The lawyer not Hanks !]

Doesn't mean we should not keep trying to get him out too.

Agreed … he is still a US citizen …

A lot of empty souls here.

Personally I await that judgement from a higher power 👼… sorry. Well not too sorry …🤩😎

She's free because of her social status as a professional athlete. I'm not very happy about that.

Yes, as I posted – That along with race, sex and sexual preference may also had something to do with it. Not that I really care about any of those things. She an adult, etc. But as we know sometimes you have to think about the angles, POVs, etc. like the "enemy" does … e.g. Putin …

Griner, Bout and Whelan are one of a kind. Incompetent and unworthy of attention.

Well maybe so, but we usually AFAIK don't leave even our spies behind. We work out a deal. And he is a US citizen, generally we don't leave US citizens in foreign prisons.

Griner for the reasons I mentioned could not be left behind. Plus, again … We generally don't leave US citizens to rot in foreign prisons.

I'm guessing Bout is a Putin operative(?), IMO. He sells weapons to many of our enemies. E.g. the Taliban, AQ, FARC[but I think they are out of business now ?], etc. And Putin most likely get his piece of the action. He is, along with many other things, a gangster.

Does anyone think that Putin and his spies, etc. did not know Bout was selling weapons to enemies of the West ? Or when Russian hackers ransom some US businesses, steal intel, etc. that Putin is unaware. Or again even gets his cut. In $ or intel, etc..

What a terrible trade !
Who was the broker of this trade, the Boston Red Sox?

One of them violated his oath and stole from his nation.

The other exercised a civil right in a protest against injustice and the abuse of power.

Bout in US hands had one purpose and he served it.

And, Bronco's fans would probably argue that worst trade ever statement.

Some of these comments, I think, show exactly why Grinder was released. Putin has been an expert at keeping us divided. Now we have more outrage, disagreement, more political attacks on POTUS, racial and sexual orientation references. I don't think Biden looks like a vote getter after this, 35th. I think he did the human thing, but Putin wins this round.

Plus Putin gets Bout back earlier than expected. The master sanction buster, just when Putin needs him most to help supply the war.

Choctaw is there something about Briner disdaining the US? I cannot name a single player in the WNBA, so I am no fan. But I have no clue about her patriotism.

Sorry Tort, I think many out there would disagree that it was not for a photo op and votes.

I watched his speech with Griner's wife and the VP behind him.

The head of the teacher union (Randi Weingarten) comment afterward:

"Weingarten responded Thursday morning to President Biden's tweet touting the release of Griner. She exclaimed over Twitter, "What a great relief!!! Extraordinary news, a basketball star, but also a gay, black woman is released.""

So I think that is exactly the response the administration wanted and why they were happy with only one and not both.

Again my opinion.

Can we all agree that the Russians are the bad guys here?

They didn't need to arrest either, or hold either.

It has been reported that NBC originally reported:

"However, NBC News, citing a senior U.S. official, first reported that the "Kremlin gave the White House the choice of either Griner or Whelan — or none.""

They later changed that to:

"Without issuing an editorial note, NBC News made a stealthy change to the article, such that it now reads, "The Kremlin ultimately gave the White House the choice of either Griner or no one after different options were proposed.""

So I guess you can believe what you want. But the administration should have held out for both, for the value of what Russia received in exchange.

I believe this was NBC's original

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"A senior U.S. official told NBC News that the U.S. government had sought to have both Griner and Whelan released as part of a swap with the Kremlin, which wanted the return of Viktor Bout, a Russian arms dealer who has served 11 years of a 25-year sentence in the U.S. But the official said Russia has treated Whelan differently because he is an accused spy, and that the Kremlin gave the White House the choice of either Griner or Whelan — or none."

. No need for the WH to cover up the option, why not just tell us?

35th, I agree that POTUS put on a show, certainly did not sway my vote, but he must have thought it would be of value. But he took the bait and now he will get pounded. I did not realize that Whelan had such issues. But he's still an American.

And I disagree about Bout. The agent who caught him was on the news and predicts he is still effective and dangerous. So yes the trade was very likely a one sided deal.

"Could you imagine the backlash from the vocal "woke"(?), BLM, etc., factions, etc. ? If an old white man who was there longer by years than Griner was released first".

Surely they wouldn't resort to Summer of 2020 tactics again, like 574 riots and throwing firebombs at the police and buildings again, would they?

Apparently the NBA player hates the USA, according to news reports tonight.

When deals are sooooooo bad, you should take a pass on them.

Better option would be to restart oil drilling in the USA with abandon to REALLY bring the pain to Putin.

It's all for POTUS political points, if it wasn't in his demographic target there'd have been nothing done. Bout probably has value if only for contacts.

Of course Ms Griner should have refused release and stayed in Russia. What was she thinking?

What she should have done was use an ounce of brain power and understand bringing a substance, that in many countries is illegal, into a country openly antagonistic to the US and therefore it's citizens and expect nothing to happen. And considering the WNBA players frequently play in countries like PRC, Russia, and Turkey they or their agents should be fully aware of these kind of incidents. It's not like she had tylenol and was duly shocked they would arrest her.

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"But how would you feel if you were caught fair and square in a stupid mistake that got you in prison,"

3x3=6 is a mistake. Griner intentionally took a controlled substance into Russia, knowing it was illegal. She was smuggling drugs and got caught. My understanding is that she was there because she was playing for a Russian team and had been there several times. By being arrested and prosecuted she was facing the consequences of her own actions.

It seems like a very one sided deal to me.

Griner intentionally took a controlled substance into Russia

I'm not sure that is true. I have reasonable doubt that it was placed there to make the arrest prior to the War.

Regardless, I see two possible scenarios:
1) The drug was planted as outlined above.
2) Griner regularly took THC vape into Russia. The government knew and did nothing about it until they needed a PoW. This time, it's fascinating that there was wasn't some amount of US currency to overlook this little oopsie.

If she stays anti American then maybe we trade her back for that other guy.

Who is going to take responsibility when the "merchant" is back in business and his wares are utilized in killing or maiming people, either US citizens or anyone actually? He is not going back to sell vacuum cleaners.

I would be curious about what exactly constitutes her "anti-American" stance? If it involves criticism of the government organs, or how they handle things, then this is different. I also could like to know what news source these accusations come from? If it is Fox news, they love creating division so they can sell commercial time to their audience, who at least claim to be patriotic. In the end, my feeling is that the critics belong to the "America: love it or leave it!" crowd. I've certainly experienced my fair share of such a thing.

Damon.

From what I read she took the THC vape for some injury but she still should have known. LeBron has some remarks about the whole thing, and MSNBC blames the salary of WNBA players for putting Griner in this horrible choice of having to play for rich foreign owners. It sounds like her anti-US stuff is pretty tame compared to others.

Griner was vaping THC for "medical reasons" (her words), but there was no prescription. She was also vaping hash oil, many of the media reports choose to leave the hash charge out. She admitted that both were hers.

AFAIK her anti-American stance is limited to personal statements and kneeling during the National Anthem. Both are within her rights but are offensive to many Americans, especially veterans or their families.

As a veteran what she did doesn't bother me in the least. See we have the right in this country to do as we see fit within the boundaries of the law. Kneeling isn't against the law now is it? I see a lot of people telling celebrities to shut up and entertain us. I think the same about venues, enough with the National Anthem, God Bless America and in case of the Red Sox Sweet Caroline at sporting events. Shut up and entertain me dammit! :)

AFAIK her anti-American stance is limited to personal statements and kneeling during the National Anthem. Both are within her rights but are offensive to many Americans, especially veterans or their families.

According to Mad Anthony Schwartz's link above:

"In 2020, amid widespread Black Lives Matter protests decrying police brutality and racism, Griner stated that the national anthem shouldn't be played during games and refused to be on the floor while it played. Griner is an articulate athlete, and her intention was always clear. "I don't mean that in any disrespect to our country. My dad was in Vietnam and a law officer for 30 years," she told The Arizona Republic at the time. "I wanted to be a cop before basketball. I do have pride for my country."

And yet, we have tweets proliferating across social media accusing Griner of disrespecting the American flag (she didn't) or kneeling during the national anthem (also not true).

Per these conservatives, Brittney Griner doesn't deserve our sympathy — or even to be freed from a Russian penal colony — because she has some reservations about the way Black people in America have historically been treated."

+1 Steve Wilcox

Some of these comments, I think, show exactly why Grinder was released. Putin has been an expert at keeping us divided. Now we have more outrage, disagreement, more political attacks on POTUS, racial and sexual orientation references. I don't think Biden looks like a vote getter after this, 35th. I think he did the human thing, but Putin wins this round.

Putin did win this round. IMO it comes down to did Putin offer only Griner or the POTUS make the choice of which one. I really don't know at this point ?

However, in this current political, social, woke, etc., environment, etc., as I said. The backlash of the POTUS et al. taking an old white man over a black female lesbian would be very bad optics, etc. Based on all we see on a daily basis in the media. Many in the media and elsewhere find racism everywhere. As well as finding homophobia, sexism, etc. is the norm. If she was moslem, it would be islamophobia. Did I miss any phobias ?

If it is Fox news, they love creating division so they can sell commercial time to their audience, who at least claim to be patriotic.

Don't forget some media e.g. MSNBC and The View finds racism all over the place. The legacy news and CNN generally IMO leave out facts that may not fit their narrative, etc. Or maybe they don't think those are important ? Regardless, they are all pretty much agenda driven. But as well as making $ with ratings then in turn selling commercial time.

I watch FOX, I don't claim to be patriot … If it comes up, I let others decide if they must. But many don't care either way AFAIK. As far FOX creating division, if they do, they are not the only ones. Since I'm an old white man, conservative, Veteran, GOP supporter so I may be biased. My opinions maybe biased. I do like many of their reporters/journalist. And many are rated highly. Plus, they have two Vets that I like hearing their opinions, etc. as well. One was in the same Rgt I was only 30-40 years later !

But pointing the finger at FOX creating division. I as well as others could/would say e.g. MSNBC, The View, etc. do the same.

Thresher +1

It's all for POTUS political points, if it wasn't in his demographic target there'd have been nothing done.

I tend to agree with that. Like the late rushed evac of A'stan. The way that was done was for optics and a political
decision. The US Military's AAR pretty much clearly says so. But that is another topic we no longer need to discuss all over again. But everything a POTUS does or fails to do is part of his legacy and history. And as we see historians can be biased too.

Watch Bridge of Spies, about the swap for Francis Gary Powers. Tom Hanks is of course a good guy.

I mentioned that in a previous post. I recommend it. The character was a real person that Hanks played. And AFAIK know was the "good" guy. However, Able was portrayed as almost a "victim", I don't know, I was not there. But I tend to think it was probably a somewhat accurate portrayal, or close. The actor, I forget his name, was very good along with Hanks.

Per these conservatives, Brittney Griner doesn't deserve our sympathy — or even to be freed from a Russian penal colony —

She is a US citizen as I had said before … she should have been released.

she has some reservations about the way Black people in America have historically been treated."

And the US has been trying to "fix" that since 1865. With a way to go.

If Vikktor Bout goes back to his old career, I strongly hope the CIA / DEA makes sure he is killed resisting arrest or just has an unfortunate accident…

We could farm it out to some 3rd party…

A little about who we exchanged:

"Variously dubbed "the merchant of death" and "the sanctions buster" for his ability to get around arms embargoes, Bout, 55, was one of the world's most wanted men prior to his 2008 arrest on multiple charges related to arms trafficking.

For almost two decades, Bout became the world's most notorious arms dealer, selling weaponry to rogue states, rebel groups and murderous warlords in Africa, Asia and South America."

"Putin's blood-soaked 'Merchant of Death' jailed for 25 years for trying to KILL Americans: Viktor Bout tried to sell missiles to down US passenger jets, armed Al Qaeda, stole $32 USDBN of weapons from Ukraine and inspired Nicholas Cage film Lord of War

To Western security services, however, he was the 'Merchant of Death'; the world's biggest private arms dealer, backed by Putin and responsible for bring death and destruction to thousands.   

During his career trading weapons Bout became notorious for his willingness to arm almost anyone, from Al-Qaeda to militias in Sierra Leone, to Charles Taylor's brutal Liberian regime, to the Taliban. 

Among Bout's most infamous acts, was stealing $32 USD billion worth of weaponry from Ukraine between 1992 and 1998. His fleet of aircraft grew to such an existent, Bout was regarded as having his own air force of about 60 planes. 

The moniker, Merchant of Death, was coined by British Foreign Office Minister Peter Hain, who said in 2003: 'Bout is the leading merchant of death who is the principal conduit for planes and supply routes that take arms… from East Europe, principally Bulgaria, Moldova and Ukraine to Liberia and Angola.'"

He sounds like a really nice guy… not. Also sounds like the Ukraine is not real happy about this.

This also gives Putin a valuable sound bite at a time he really needed it the most. "See what a great negotiator I am. Look at the deal I got."

I think from the trade point of view, he ended up looking like the winner.

Yes he did. There are mixed reviews regarding whether Bout is now more like the Merchant of Arthritis at this point. The game has changed. But Biden had crushed Putin in the PR war until now.

Grinder does not sound very anti-American to me. Not that I agree with her necessarily. But I do think her mistake was not just carrying the cannabis crème or whatever. Even going there shows a lack of awareness Re world affairs.

From what I have been reading,Bout is not washed up. Especially at his current age. Congratulations to Griner for coming home. But it was a crap deal. As I said, we gave up a general for a captain. For the value of what Putin got, we should have received every US political prisoner that Putin held.

I do hope Griner appreciates the US and what she has now, since she has now experienced real oppression.

Trust me 35th she African American unlike the privileged folks pontificating here, she know oppression. Double because she a women and I am not going to touch the other thing. As for Whelan he'll be sitting in a cell somewhere it only a matter of time. Do you think our prison are any better then Russian prisons?

I guess oppression, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

"A top salary position in the WNBA is roughly $221 USDk, with Griner earning what is known as a 'supermax salary' of around $227 USDk a year.

According to Celebrity Net Worth, Brittney Griner has an estimated net worth of about $5 USDmillion.

Her net worth comes from her accomplishments not only playing for the WNBA but also playing for teams overseas.

For example, she earned $600 USDk in 2014 playing for a Chinese team, and over the span of eight years, she earned $1.5 USDmillion playing for Russia."

Brittany's wife:

"Cherelle Griner is an American social media influencer and teacher by profession, who came into the limelight after being romantically acquainted with famous professional WNBA basketball player of the Phoenix Mercury team, Brittney Griner. Cherelle's birth name is Cherelle Watson, but she changed her second name legally after marrying Brittney. Similarly, in her leisure time, the influencer likes traveling, reading books, clicking pictures, etc."

"The 31-year-old joined the North Carolina Central University of Law in August 2019. Recently, she shared that she graduated with a Master's degree in Law in May 2022 and shared her name as Cherelle T. Griner J.D. "

"Basketball wife Cherelle Griner's net worth is at least $3.5 USD million. This is more than what one would expect from Brittney Griner's wife."

Being the wife of renowned basketball star Brittney Griner, Cherelle is famous on social media. She is an influencer and has about 79K followers on her Instagram, @cherelletgriner.

Griner also earns from other side ventures as a motivational speaker. Additionally, she works on empowering teens & women to self-actualization.

"Additionally, Brittney's wealth also adds to the net worth of her wife, Cherelle. Being a basketball player, the former earns a respectable sum from her professional contract and endorsements."

Subject: Cherelle Griner's Net Worth Is Above $3.5 USD Million – Her Job And Salary Details


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Subject: Brittney Griner's net worth in 2022 stays strong thanks to huge salary in Russia and WNBA


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So was Griner ALWAYS worth $3.5 USDmil, or is this a recent development?

Damon.

Griner(s).

Her father (mother is a housewife)

Raymond Griner is an American Military Veteran, who served in Vietnam from 1968 to 1969. He is well-known as the father of Brittney Griner, who is an American Professional Basketball Player for the Phoenix Mercury of the Women's NBA.

His daughter Brittney won two gold medals in the world cup in 2014 and 2018 and was found guilty in a Russian Drug Trial.

He served as a Harris Country Deputy Sheriff in the 1980s.

Raymond Griner Wiki, Age, Biography

Raymond Griner is a Military Veteran. His exact date of birth and place are not known. He is 65 years old. He belongs to Christian Religion.

Raymond Griner Wife, Children

Raymond Griner is a Married Men. He got married to Sandra Griner, who is a Housewife. They have together four children named Three daughters Shkera Griner, Pier Griner, and Brittney Griner, and One son named Decarlo Griner.

Raymond Griner family
Raymond Griner Parents, Father, Mother, Siblings

Raymond Griner's parent's information is not available anywhere on the web. As we get something about his parents, we will update it here as soon as possible.

Raymond Griner Height, Weight

Raymond Griner Height is 6 feet 3 inches. His weight is around 74 kg.

Raymond Griner Ethnicity, Nationality

Raymond Griner's ethnicity is African-American. He holds American nationality.

Raymond Griner Net Worth

Raymond Griner's exact net worth is not known but his net worth might be more than $1 USD million.

Another poor, oppressed, spoiled millionaire athlete.

This IS a major reason why I no longer watch much in the way of professional sports, and definitely refuse to pay any money to support them.