"German Coups averted...." Topic

Actually, Antifa goes back to the 1920s in Germany. However, they were funded by the Soviets in the 1970s and 80s. As were the 'Nuclear Freeze' groups. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Antifa =/= Communist =/= Antifa

Ngo's understanding of Antifa is massively coloured by his, no doubt sincerely held, anti-Communist beliefs though frankly he needs to keep better company IMPO. Modern anti-fascist movements have by an large been popular fronts comprising a range of various left-wing groups/ideologies/political world views. Some of the components certainly took money from the USSR and its proxies (as did some anti-nuclear movements). Some did not. The movement is not a singular body yes they it members organise but its a composite of groups and parts of groups. Common denominator being people who like to get into a ruck with people they view as fascists. And I'd personally suspect a great deal of cross-over with the violent elements of the anti-globalisation/capitalist movement of some years ago. Assuming the snippets on tactics are from Ngo's book they are hardly a revelation and could have picked off the internet with 10-minutes browsing. IIRC those tactics were coming into use in the 90's. I wouldn't disagree with the idea some are there purely for 'propaganda of the deed' and little else. But there will be plenty who sincerely see the far-right as a threat to democracy. Some may even consider them class-traitors in need of 're-education' with a steel toe-capped boot. I've not seen anything that suggests Antifa is politically homogeneous organisation with a revolutionary communist agenda.

Is QAnon a right wing equivalent ?

No, just no, on many and various levels.

Yes, Antifa is anti-fascist, but to them all gov'ts, law enforcement, military, Capitalists, etc.= fascists. They basically comedown to being anarchists today, in not only IMO. Are they associated with Communism ? Seems they would get more support for those groups or movements worldwide. But I could be wrong. However, as long as they do violence any time they show up. They are a threat to civilized society and should be addressed as such.

QAnon are just a lunatic fringe. Seems to me to be neither Left or Right. But if I had to make a choice; they may be more left leaning ? Either way they are nut jobs …

QAon is extreme right Legion. That's why I asked about them vs Antifa. Nut jobs all around us…

QAon is extreme right Legion. That's why I asked about them vs Antifa.

QAnon is a boogeyman neither seen nor encountered. When was the last time you saw a mob of QAnon-ers firebomb a Federal Courthouse?

Antifa, on the other hand, were organized as the Skull Crackers and Knee-Cappers of the various Communist groups in Germany to beat down their opponents, and then spread elsewhere to other countries. And Antifa's opponents weren't just opposing Fascist groups (a fight between related ideologies), it was anybody who got in the way of the Communists.

And that's what they today -- the black shirt-wearing, mask-wearing, red armband-wearing Stosstruppen on the Street for Leftists to use violence and threats to intimidate and beat down their opponents…any and all opponents.

QAon is extreme right Legion. That's why I asked about them vs Antifa. Nut jobs all around us…

OK, I'll go with that. But without a doubt both mobs are lunatic fringers, who really don't serve any useful purpose but start problems. Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly AFAIK nowhere mentions burning down city blocks, attacking LEOs, rioting, etc., etc.

Antifa, on the other hand, were organized as the Skull Crackers and Knee-Cappers of the various Communist groups in Germany to beat down their opponents, and then spread elsewhere to other countries. And Antifa's opponents weren't just opposing Fascist groups (a fight between related ideologies), it was anybody who got in the way of the Communists.

As I said, today in the USA. They should be designated domestic terrorists, arrested and charge the next time they do damage, riot, etc.

I'm telling ya … Gitmo is nice this time of year.

Surely you remember the painted and horned QANon Shaman, and the QAnon slogans on shirts worn that day…

Indications of significant power and influence. Whoever "Q" is, the cult's beliefs seem to be pretty widely disseminated, routinely encountered and spread on social media from around 2017 through 2020, returning again this year. People may believe some or all of this stuff. Anonymous maybe, powerful and influential for many.

Extremism on left and right is the issue. It's influences on our citizens are part of the polarization process.

Surely you remember the painted and horned QANon Shaman, and the QAnon slogans

Oh yeah, an out of work actor with emotional issues living in his mom's basement wearing a buffalo hat and giving a Fonzie-like "Ayyyyy" as he walked into the Senate chambers while paying respects to a Capitol Police Officer *present in the room* was truly as terrifying as black-shirted, masked Antifa members screaming and throwing Molotov Cocktails at a Federal Building on where they *tried to cement the doors closed* while some screamed "BACON! BACON!" and "FRY PIGGIE, FRY!"

Totes the same…

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"Q" is a nothing. It is not a movement, it may have some small fringe following, but unlike Antifa which has real power exercised with the tacit and overt support from the Democrats and Media, Q has no power and seems to be more sustained by the Establishment media and Democrats as a boogieman than anything else.

Extremism on left and right is the issue. It's influences on our citizens are part of the polarization process.

Of course, that is a standard. The "Q" Shaman needs to see a shrink daily … He Be Nutz !!!! 🤪🥴😵

Antifa which has real power exercised with the tacit and overt support from the Democrats and Media,

Well seems they have some support. Soros types, maybe even laundered support from Putin, Xi, etc. ?

All I know many of the Antifa thugs seem to get away with their rioting, vandalism, attacks, etc. Again, I saw the footage, as did many others. I have not heard of any of them being incarcerated for long periods of time, etc. Didn't a current very high-ranking member of US leadership let many BLM rioters, Antifa, etc. out of jail very quickly. When in a past local Gov't position.

SB – After reading more, I am not buying that its all a clown show. No way. But we are too political at this point for TMP IMO.

Where are they, then??

Well that was my question. Where is Antifa? Is QAnon a similar shadowy bunch?

But I found a huge amount of info on QAnon supporters related to all kinds of incidents from Jan 6 to the assault on Paul Pelosi. You could start with Wikipedia which has a time line of recent QAnon related events, you should check the footnote sources to confirm or to look into more. A lot of these things appear to be connected to QAnon conspiracy beliefs. Some of the German coup suspects were alleged QAnon followers.

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Facebook apparently caused 70,000 QAnon related accounts to be deleted following Jan 6.

I agree with Legion and would like to see any criminal activity investigated and the law applied. Regardless of affiliation.

But I found a huge amount of info on QAnon supporters related to all kinds of incidents from Jan 6 to the assault on Paul Pelosi.

So you really think the attack by a leftoid nudist Berkeley hippie commune dweller on Nancy Pelosi's husband was inspired by QAnon?!? There's a reason the media dropped the story as soon as the MidTerm elections were over, and that's because all of the initial police interactions indicated some kind of personal interelation between said leftoid hippie and Nancy's husband. So, no, that doesn't count.

Facebook apparently caused 70,000 QAnon related accounts to be deleted following Jan 6.

Given there are 3 Billion Facebook accounts out there, 70,000 doesn't seem like that much. And shouldn't you also nee dot know how they define "QAnon" related? Does it mean an activist or someone who reposts QAnon originated stuff upon occasion?

I agree with Legion and would like to see any criminal activity investigated and the law applied. Regardless of affiliation.

So do I, on that we can agree! So I look forward to the excitement of the May 2020 Commission that will investigate the Antifa/BLM assault on the White House that forced the President to retreat to the White House saferoom, caused millions in damages, x150 injured Secret Service, DC Police and Park Police, the arson attack on an historic Church the torched, in addition to multiple vehicles torched.

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Yes I do think that's why Paul Pelosi was attacked. Social media is a creepy world, IMO. It's not just the deranged, it's also the messengers who worry me.

There are degrees of involvement on both sides, as with most things. I am not going to put some sort of cutting spin on you vs. me however. We are products of many influences, but not as far apart as you may think, IMO.

I would like to see a hearing on the 2020 riots. I only disagree that this is somehow equivalent to the specific attack on the Capitol, it's leaders and purpose. Newark in the 60s, LA in the 90s. The horror in Tulsa…. On and on, bad stuff and all too familiar. Taking over the Capitol to stop an election certification does not fit, I think. Apples and oranges – so we disagree.

And I am not sure we can find some sort of statesman, or woman, to conduct a credible look at 2020. But there is information about extremists on both right and left to be had about the incidents you refer to, and much else, so let them go for it. I know you are being facetious about the excitement, but all of this is more about sorrow, IMO.

It is not the poor nut jobs who believe a lot of this extremist stuff who worry me, although there are millions. It's the elites on both sides who manipulate and mislead for their own interests.

I would like to see a hearing on the 2020 riots. I only disagree that this is somehow equivalent to the specific attack on the Capitol, it's leaders and purpose.

So a fiery assault on the White House by Antifa/BLM mobs causing millions in damages and 150+ law enforcement injured wasn't a specific attack on our leaders and purpose??

Just want to understand, because protestations aside this feels like a case of moral equivalency…

It is not the poor nut jobs who believe a lot of this extremist stuff who worry me, although there are millions. It's the elites on both sides who manipulate and mislead for their own interests.

I agree 100%

Yes, Some are too busy investigating the last POTUS plus Jan. 6. There were 570+ BLM/Antifa riots in 2020. No one is investigating those, AFAIK. Guess all the cost & loss of those don't count ?

Far more events than that in 2020, more arrests, social media connections identified on left and right, with leftists dominating.

You guys might be interested in the AAR on the riots from the major urban PDs. link

The number of prosecutions was lower than I think it should have been. I think this is partly due to the high caseload, pandemic backlog. There are always too many cases to handle smoothly, lots of waiting. Many riot cases were dropped because the evidence was not seen as strong enough to convict. The system was overwhelmed at every level. Much of the additional federal funding for police the following year was influenced by this.

Most protesters were non violent. I am guessing that low level misdemeanor charges were dropped and these were the largest group. Huge numbers of participants did not commit crimes.

But it is not correct that no one was held accountable. A lot of arrests, resulting in around 400 federal prosecutions and maybe a couple of thousand others.

But again, this is apples to oranges,IMO. There are some similarities, but not many between the two events.

Tort, have to remember though, these riots took place in Democratic cities, mostly. Also happening during the previous presidents administration. These people committing the crimes were their voters, or perceived to be backed by people who they expected to vote for them. Also this violence helped the media to portray the president in the ways they wanted to portray him. These individuals were serving a purpose for those in charge in those cities and for powerful political interests. Therefore they were less likely to be punished and they were being bailed out by these powerful interests.

Notice also, they stopped almost immediately after the 2020 election. Magic? Did racism, police brutality and oppression, suddenly just stop in January of 2020?

Does that say anything?

On second thought, I see your point SB. In the big picture, groups formed around certain beliefs in both cases. Jan6 was more overtly political, very specific targets, a single site.

Since this was originally about the "coup" in Germany, saw this today and thought it interesting

Subject: The "Coup" in Germany – The American Sun


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Project Veritas, Ngo are not journalist but propagandist they are funded by Charles G. Koch Foundation and other Billionaires. So there you have a connection, from the capitalist to radical right wing (talk about history repeating itself.) You guys talk about the "Deep state" and various conspiracy and here you have it. And Rodger Stone takes this back to the early 70s and Nixon.

Project Veritas, Ngo are not journalist but propagandist they are funded by Charles G. Koch Foundation and other Billionaires.

Ngo is a Gay Asian Libertarian street journalist who was Red Pilled after getting beaten down by Antifa over critical coverage. Veritas, maybe, and good! I want watchdogs on both sides of the spectrum seeking dirt on the opposition and everyone in power to achieve some transparency and accountability of all political movements.

I'd love to see a journalism free fire culture – that everyone is fair game. Sadly, we don't have that. Just look at what we're learning about our news gate keepers.

According to the Twitter Files being released it turns out that Twitter had a contract with the FBI to block what the FBI deemed "Misinformation," recruited from the FBI to staff its "governance," cyber security and "misinformation" teams (at least x80 former FBI agents plus folks from DHS), hired the FBI's general legal counsel and hired James Comey's Chief of Staff into a senior position. This FBI team had its own internal secure chat, and they and Twitter counsel and leadership also had a standing weekly call with the US Intelligence community (FBI, DHS and DNI).

This connection went across senior levels of the Democratic Party as well, so for example, in the contested governor's race in Arizona the Democrat candidate Katie Hobbes was able to work with Twitter to block and ban people expressing concern over election integrity issues.

The marriage of State and Media -- nice, eh?

Oh, and the FBI helpfully wargamed a "Russian disinformation campaign" in September 2020 that just happened to use the Hunter Biden laptop scandal issue as its subject, since the FBI *knew* the data on the laptop was *real* and not Russian spin. So when the New York Post released the story in October 2020 the FBI (who knew the story was coming) worked with its insiders in Twitter, and then used its contacts across the spectrum of Establishment Media to block the story from being told. A legit news story with big implications was blocked on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and other social media platforms in addition to the alphabet soup media blocking it as Russian Disinformation at the FBI's behest.

And I'm supposed to be concerned over Project veritas?!?!?

I think we cannot go here. "The marriage of state and media" was a hallmark of the last administration. Twitter, Fox, etc. if we get into this it will not go well for us. This is a huge can of worms regarding TMP policy, I think.

You think Trump and Twitter were "married" to promote State propaganda? Love to hear your reasoning- you can post on Blue Fez if you like.

I am not on the Fez, best for me not to go down that road. But yes, absolutely. We will have to disagree and leave it SB, until a few years go by!

Well, we don't have to wait that long…

Twitter colluded with Pentagon to run network of fake accounts around the world – including AI-created deep fakes – despite publicly claiming to delete government backed propaganda
Twitter worked with the Pentagon to promote a series of fake accounts claiming to be people based in the Middle East
The revelation comes from the latest installment in the Twitter Files – the eighth such installment, published this time by San Francisco-based reporter Lee Fang
Twitter 'quietly aided the Pentagon's covert online PsyOp campaign,' Fang said, in a time frame spanning at least the years 2017-2020
The work was done to bolster 52 accounts tweeting in Arabic, which promoted the U.S. policies in the Middle East
Fang said it was done despite Twitter having 'claimed for years that they make concerted efforts to detect' and 'thwart gov-backed platform manipulation'

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@35thOVI

Since this was originally about the "coup" in Germany, saw this today and thought it interesting

Subject: The "Coup" in Germany – The American Sun

That article is hilarious on one level (accusing one guy arrested in the PR stunt sweep of being a "prepper" for having x12 cans of ravioli in his pantry), and scary on another because it describes how the German government is using law enforcement to harass and even jail people on a broader scale who are critical of their actions.

SB, scary when you take this in conjunction with the released Twitter files and it's attack on freedom of speech. Your thoughts?

I think the Twitter issue shows how effectively the Establishment has done a Judo move on Social Media to capture those influence tools for their own purposes, but they can't hide it so easily as in the past.

Early on in the introduction internet media and the top 3 Social Media companies – Facebook, Twitter and YouTube, unlike traditional media it was "wild west" days. Everything was peer-to-peer, not scrutinized, influenced or controlled by any particular government or government agency. Content could go viral, and touch millions of people outside of State influence.

At first it was all cat videos and social gossip, but at some point counter influencers arose on these platforms that pushed a different narrative or criticized the Establishment. But the power of Social Media really was felt in 2009 with the Arab Street movement, largely spontaneous, peer-to-peer organized via Twitter and it freaked the &*!@(!&( out of the world's governments! So they have spent the years since then bringing Social Media to heel, put on a leash and collar and made it do tricks.

Hard not to notice the Establishment "traditional" Media (CNNMSNBCCBSABCPBSWaPoNYTHuffPo, etc.) and top Social Media all mirror each other, and happen to support the Establishment narrative. And if you take a look at who works where, you see a lot of politicians, political staffers and government agents & officials revolve from Government to Media and back again -- like Stephanopulous, for example, or Twitter hiring so many FBI agents.

But as I said earlier, because of internet media, alternate social media and image memes that can fly under censorship radar there are a lot of people who are more aware of this. Elon's purchase of Twitter has revealed more of this control game -- what that leads to, I dunno. Is this a "waterloo" moment for liberty or for the Establishment? Can you put the cat back in the bag?

As Mark Twain once said, "It's easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled."

If people have not read the "unedited" Twitter revelations, I highly suggest it. Normally these have a number on each revelation made, within a release. 7 releases so far. It's actually very scary. if January 6th is important to you and scared you, this attack on our constitutional rights should equally scare the He#l out of you, or you are just not being honest.

Don't use google to try and find them, it's a lost cause. DuckDuckGo can get you there, but with a lot work normally. Would be nice to have an unbiased search engine. But I doubt Santa brings one.

@35thOVI, yep, because the Establishment Media are *barely* covering this bombshell news in the US, and when they are it's full of spin. For example CNN has a small bottom page article that "Musk Claims" accompanied by an article calling for a Congressional investigation into Musk's ownership of Twitter.

The daily mail supports the British conservative party it also support Hilter and British fascist in the 30s. And yet folks go on about the liberal media.

it also support Hilter and British fascist in the 30s.

You know who else supported Hitler and Mussolini and other fascists in the 1920s and into the 1930s? Pretty much everyone who liked Socialism and wasn't a Communist. Time magazine made Il Duce "Man of the Year," several years over, and the NYT remarked that he and Hitler were forming the "Third Way" between Socialism and Capitalism. The NYT also said that "Hitler's anti-Semitism was not so violent or genuine as it sounded," that it was a mere appeal to voters. Of course the NYT couldn't decide who they liked better, Hitler or Stalin – given that their lead man in Moscow, Durranty, shilled hard for Stalin and even covered over the murder of 5 million people during the Holodomor.

Or…did you not know that? This habit of attacking the messenger 'cause you don't like the message is pretty weak gruel…

Well, it must all be a anarcho-communist conspiracy since people don't get angry, like really angry, about ingrained economic and social inequalities do they?

Something which I at least had not spotted previously in the reporting of this is the fascinating nugget that the 'Prince' has a Russian life-companion apparently, courtesy of Spectator Magazine (a nice right of political centre safe space), and the German police have arrested three other Russian's known to this individual who are suspected of offering to arrange financing.

The plotters also appear to have been of the belief that a super-secret supra-national government conspiracy would come to their aid once the coup happened….

The plotters also appear to have been of the belief that a super-secret supra-national government conspiracy would come to their aid once the coup happened….

You mean the Would-be Prince may have gotten his 12 cans of ravioli from the Russians!?!?? Great Scott, will their evil never end?!?

Conspiracies… not sure they will ever end either. Just calling something a conspiracy is now treated as a conspiracy. When you answer a conspiracy with another conspiracy, it's like having an answer for everything…endless.

So if some left leaning individuals decide to commit public order offenses its a deep conspiracy to destroy democracy but if some some right-of-centre individuals are arrested on suspicion of conspiring to commit acts of terrorism to bring down a state (possibly funded by a foreign nation) its just the government supressing their freedom of political expression?

I liked the response of one of the dissident Russian journalist's early in the invasion when asked how the Russian people could believe the propaganda pushed by the Kremlin and its ultra-nationalist useful idiots. To paraphrase 'just look at what you believe'.

ROU, I think the article I posted stated there were much more concerning threats, both left and right over there. This, at best very small and loose group, were more of a joke. To me, more like "The People's Front of Judea", from "The Life of Brian". The amount of weapons confiscated seem to point that way. That is only my opinion based on reading multiple sources and putting what is reported together.

Maybe we could title this one: "The Old Man who would be King".

They do appear something of a tragi-comic joke but does not mean they weren't potentially dangerous. And clearly German law enforcement believed they had sufficient evidence to justify arrest or they believed there was an immediate risk. Looking at the so far sparse information it seems there would be sufficient in UK to charge them with preparing an act of terror (no clue what the German equivalent is). People in the UK have been successfully prosecuted just for possession of the documentation relevant to the preparation of terrorist activity let alone the material resources (by which time it can be too late). Really just have to see what emerges as it comes to trial or not.

UK example – did have materials – equivalent in some respects to the German plotters.
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ROU, sounds like a fringer alright. Does not sound like he had too much upstairs. If he planned terrorism, then arrest was justified. I doubt the police mobilized 100's to arrest him.

Did he have anymore the 3 air rifles, a BB gun and a pistol(what type, BB, Air, bullet, article does not say)? 🤔

"Following his arrest on 25 August, officers seized a number of tools and army surplus combat gear as well as weapon accessories to accompany the three air rifles he owned.

Police also seized two air rifles and pellets, a pistol, BB gun, a walkie talkie, and binoculars as well as a packed rucksack to camp overnight."

Combat gear could be ruck sacks, back packs, uniforms, anything, it pretty nebulous.

I find avoiding Google and using other search engines, for instance DuckDuckGo, give me a wider range of articles, other than just the current "accepted media perspectives". I'm not making any judgement about this article, it's just something I do to see what else is out there. But that is my choice and maybe does not appeal to others.

Have a good one.

I'd go with BB pistol. An actual firearm, particularly a handgun, would have generated additional charges and media coverage. And yeah combat gear will have items of uniform, probably some form of camo, and webbing etc

And I wouldn't be surprised about the numbers involved bearing in mind each suspect will generate an arrest team, and each suspect location a search team, not to mention incident control teams and command teams. I know nothing of how German police operate in respect to Federal boundaries but it wouldn't surprise if there multiple command teams involved. Also there may well have been supporting elements present in reserve or there to observe prior to the arrests taking place. Not to mention officers deployed to guard locations while searches were ongoing.

And in other news, the FBI and DOJ are pressing charges against an ABC Investigative journalist who was writing a book about the Biden Admin's failure in Afghanistan. Interesting…

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SB, it comes down to, do you believe the DOJ and FBI have much credibility left, after the Twitter revelations, the bogus Russian collusion, etc.? I would say you can paint me very skeptical. But I leave everyone to their own beliefs.

The Socialist (non-communist) as well as the communist had street battles with the fascist in Germany during the thirties. They fought in Spain against them as well. And folks talk about reinventing history.

The Socialist (non-communist) as well as the communist had street battles with the fascist in Germany during the thirties.

Communism <= Socialism => Fascism

Fascism was an evolution of Socialism. It was founded and implemented by disillusioned Marxists and Socialists who felt Marxism was a failed path to reach the goal of Socialism.

There's never a war more brutal and hard fought than that between brothers…or brother ideologies, eh?

👍👍