"Westphalian Horse Artillery in 1812 question" Topic

Hi!
now onto Westphalia for my research – and i am looking for imagery for the horse artillery of the line, not of the Garde – did this actually exist or did there only exist "die reitende Garde-artillerie" Westfalens?

Does this help?

thanks -thats awesome
actually what collection is that image from? I would love to see a better resolution one where i can fully read the text.

is this collection in a book or something?

I believe Richard Knötel is wrong here. His officer and private of the horse artillery are clearly copied from Sauerweid, who depicted horse artillery of the guard:

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Or maybe Knötel is not wrong. In 1808, the Westphalian artillery regiment had one horse company, which was detached to the guard. In 1810, a second horse company was created, which was not detached to the guard. In 1813, a new line horse artillery company was created. Another new horse company for the guards was planned in 1813, but not formed.

It seems, the only difference between both horse artillery companies was that the one attached to the guards wore yellow aiguillettes on their left shoulder, for parade dress only.

Weiland also depicts an officer of the horse artillery.

Pinhas, this plate was published in October/November 1811:

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thanks -again – where do you folks obtain such wonderful precise knowledge?
Also what are teh Weiland pictures?

so that image with the german text is from Knoetel? I thought that the case, but then was thinking perhaps of some other Knoetel work with different illustrations

Weiland:

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The Knötel plate is from the Uniformenkunde series, published by Richard Knötel from 1892 to 1914.

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danke Oliver fuer die Hochladung einer besseren Faksimile!

as Oliver wrote the horse artillery created in 1808 had sort of inofficial guard status which was confirmed in 1812.

As for the line – 1810 a second hors artillery battery was raised which was attributed to the line.

The uniform changed over the time, so for what time period do you plan to create this unit in miniatures?

Originally, the Westphalian horse artillery had a single company, which had line status. It was attached to the Royal Guard and was later given Guard status.

It was served by a single train company which also was 'elevated' to Guard status.

As for 1812 go for the Pinhas print and as Oliver already stated no aiguillettes for the line horse battery, In 1811 they received the guns from the system Allix which were superior and an improvement of the out dated Gribeauval systeme, the gun carriage and amunition waggons were painted light grey, source – the state of the art book by

Gärtner, Bunde : Die Westfälische Armee der Napoleonzeit 1807 – 1813.

What is the 'system allix'?

Short biography of General Allix:

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This might be helpful:

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Interestingly, Allix's book was published in 1827, around the time of the introduction of the Valee artillery system which replaced the Gribeauval artillery system.

Allix, Système d'Artillerie de Campagne, Paris 1827, at Google Books:

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Well done, Oliver.

I've also ordered the book in hard copy. I use the downloads from Google Books but prefer to have the book in hand.

indeed a must read, the points exactly at the deficiencies of Gribeauval system and some pen pushing artillery generals

Since the book is from 1827, is Allix supporting the new artillery system by demonstrating the Gribeauval System's shortcomings?

In the introduction to his book, p. VI, Allix says that he introduced his system in Turin, from the year 8 onwards, for finally 250 guns, and that his system was in use in the Kingdom of Westphalia from 1808 to 1813.

With the publication of his book in 1827, he tried to put pressure to have his system examined by independent judges, as he felt that the new system whch was to be introduced in the French artillery in the second half of the 1820s, was not as good as his one.

But was Allix's 'system' an actual artillery system?

An artillery system is not merely the guns and ancillary artillery vehicles, but should be 'a genuine system, a thoroughly integrated blend of organizational principles, tactical ideas, and technology…in which each part was designed in functional relation to the whole. Men and material were both viewed instrumentally, as elements of this system…'-See Howard Rosen, The Systeme Gribeauval, 30-31.

thanks again all – yes i am focussing on 1812-1813 at the present, all my armies are kind of based around that period