"WWII US Recon Question" Topic

I am looking for the vehicle type for the recon platoons of a US Separate Tank Battalion. I have a chart for Nov 1944, but I need Sicily and Italy.

I know there was -
Inf Recon Platoon
Mortar Platoon – an 81mm on a halftrack – M21???
Assault Gun platoon

My question is on the Assault Gun platoon. I've seen M3-GMC and M8-HMC.

Thoughts?

Assault gun platoons were 3 T30 75mm HMC initially, and later replaced by M4/105s.

Mortar platoons were 3 M4 81mm half tracks.

Recon platoons were 2 motor cycles, 4 jeeps and an M3 half track, later TO&Es had 5 jeeps and a half track.

According to Osprey Battle Orders 21, US Armored Units in the North African and Italian Campaigns 1942-45.

Mortar platoons were 3 M4 81mm half tracks

IIRC there would have also have been one ordinary M3 halftrack as platoon command vehicle. Whether this should be actually presented on a gaming table is another issue.

My question is on the Assault Gun platoon. I've seen M3-GMC and M8-HMC.

…

Assault gun platoons were 3 T30 75mm HMC initially, and later replaced by M4/105s.

IIRC there would have also again been 1-2 ordinary halftracks, as command vehicle and ammo carrier. Again, whether these need to be represented on a gaming table is another issue.

As regards M3 GMC, that was intended for issue to tank destroyer battalions, while M3 HMC was more intended for the HE lobbing role. M8 HMC was found as assault gun in armored infantry battalions.

The Reconnaissance and Mortar Platoons were the same as found in the Armored Infantry Battalion, my write up of their T/O being here;

link

The March 1942 T/O for the Light and Medium Armored Battalions just lists 'gun, assault, self-propelled' pending receipt of equipment. HQ had an M2 halftrack and there were three M3 halftracks penciled in for the Amn Section, dependent on the carrying capacity of the SP gun when received.

I have the T-30 as substitute equipment as well, though from very old notes. Units coming up from North Africa had mostly gone overseas on the 1942 T/Os.

Gary

Thanks for the input.

I had the T30 75mm HMCs as a component in each US Infantry Regt, but had I read the M3 GMC or M8 HMC for Separate Tank Bns during mid-43.

Unrelated but related -

Thoughts on version of Shermans in Br 7th Armored in Sicily/Southern Italy. I have a note I made of IIC or V, but can't recall where I got that.

Just to clarify -

I have the 636th and 645th TD Bns having M-10s, with the Recon having M3 HMCs.

Then, I show the 601st Tank Destroyer Bn as being all M3 GMCs, with the Recon having an M-8 with a 37L50.

For Tank Bns, I am looking specially at 191st, 751st and 753rd Tank Bns. These are show as 3 tank companies at this time, not 4. So 2x companies of M-4 Shermans, and 1 company of M3A1 Stuarts. What I looked at has no 3rd company of Shermans like in 1944. The Recon is what I thought was M8 HMC or M3 GMC.

Everything I am trying to determine is Sicily to Salerno.

As I understand it, and it's a bit since I looked, the March 1942 T/Os were based on either Light Tank Battalions or Medium Tank Battalions. Each type had three Companies, each of the same model, so either all light or all medium. The 'mixed' version of the later war period standardised Tank Battalions as three Medium Companies and one Light Company.

Gary

I have the 636th and 645th TD Bns having M-10s, with the Recon having M3 HMCs.

M3 HMC sounds like a bit odd vehicle for reconnaissance (though it was moderately mobile), and AFAIK TD battalions did not have assault gun platoons.

However, M3 White scout car could have been a common sight in reconnaissance units in 1943.

Then, I show the 601st Tank Destroyer Bn as being all M3 GMCs, with the Recon having an M-8 with a 37L50.

I presume that 37L50 is referring to armament, which would mean this being M8 armoured car.

Thought I'd just list my understanding of the organisations being discussed.

The Tank Battalion, Medium, was based on T/O 17-25 of 1st March 1942. That allowed for a HQ and HQ Company and three Medium Tank Companies.

Bn HQ – 3 medium tanks
Recn Pl – 2 motorcycles, 4 Jeeps and 1 M2 halftrack
Mortar Pl – 1 M2 halftrack and 3 M4 halftracks, each with 81mm mortar
Assault Gun Pl – 1 M2 halftrack, 3 'self-propelled assault guns' and 3 M3 halftracks (as amn carriers)

Three Medium Tank Companies, each;

Co Hq – 2 tanks
Three Pls, each 5 tanks

There was no tailor-made SP assault gun available in March 1942, so the substitute was the M3 halftrack fitted with the 75-mm M1A1 howitzer (the pack howitzer), the vehicle being the T30 Howitzer Motor Carriage.

The Tank Destroyer Battalion (Self-propelled) was based on T/O 18-25 of 27th January 1943. That allowed for HQ and HQ Company, three TD Companies and a Reconnaissance Company.

Three TD Companies, each;

Co HQ – 2 M2 halftracks (pending receipt of armoured car personnel carrier)
Three TD Pls, each 3 M10 SP TDs (3-inch); note that substitute equipment is shown as the M3 halftrack equipped with the 75-mm M1897 gun, as the M3 Gun Motor Carriage.

Reconnaissance Company

Co HQ – 2 M2 halftracks (pending receipt of armoured car personnel carrier)
Pioneer Pl – 4 M2 halftracks (pending receipt of armoured car personnel carrier)
Three Recn Pls, each 2 motorcycles, 4 Jeeps and 2 light armoured cars (substitute for latter the 37mm gun armed M6 gun motor carriage).

Gary