"Do Russia’s conscripts deserve some sympathy?" Topic

"Russia's new crop of conscripts are a desperate, dejected bunch. A photograph showing an Orthodox priest blessing these men as they headed off to fight from the settlement of Bataysk in the Rostov region summed up their hopelessness. The names of such little known Russian localities must – to an English reader – all merge into one. They are simply over there, in Russia, where the suffering it has inflicted on a neighbouring country has finally come back to haunt it.

But I know where Bataysk is very well. It is a dull suburb of Rostov-on-Don, a city where I lived for four years – a kind of nothing village of one-storey villas, inhabited by Rostov commuters. It was somewhere students of mine living there would get teased about, the most unfashionable suburb of the city, a byword for total boredom – a place where nothing of any interest could ever happen. I remember my seven-year-old half-Russian daughter and me visiting it one Sunday when I was groping about for areas where I could buy a house with a yard for my animals, back in the days when it seemed Russia had a future. That site in the photo where the priest is blessing the conscripted – not to say doomed – men: I'm pretty sure I know that too. A pretty Orthodox church with a big courtyard in front of it, quite jolly on Sundays, where my daughter and I lit candles for her mother and grandmother. I imagine that its jolly days are gone now, and that Bataysk is sleepy no more, though the candles are now getting lit – by terrified wives and mothers – in thousands…"

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Armand

My sympathy is for the Ukrainians.

I can empathize with the Russians but the problem is one man and his ego. The Russians have created this hell for themselves by letting Putin and his hand picked toadies have so much control over their fates. NATO will not remove Putin only the Russian people can do that.

It would not surprise me if this conscript cannon fodder end up down wind of some tactical nuke fallout and returns to their families irradiated and riddled with cancer.

+1 Dragon Gunner

If they want sympathy then lay down their arms.

Or march to Moscow with them.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

I feel sorry for the children who have no say it what's happening, and who will see daddy leave and maybe never come back nor come back but not whole.

But as Dragon Gunnery says, I feel sorry for the people they have invaded for no reason.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

+2

Emphatically yes.
They do.
Because, as soon as they enter Ukrainian territory and do not lay down their weapons and surrender to the next Ukranian that has mercy with them, they must be killed or otherwise incapacitated.
Most of them are rather simple, delusional and poor sods, but what has to be done, has to be done.

Great film.

Is feeling sorry for them the same as sympathy? There is no doubt that Putin is intending to throw them under the bus. PBI indeed.

Looking at some the clips circulating on social media you kind of think that this is not going to end well. A heck of lot look like they pushing middle age – and by that I mean the Western definition, which from the perspective of Russian male demographics is nudging into old age.

Supposedly this new army is going to be trained for a month and then I assume they are going to have to be shipped across Russia to assembly and embarkation areas. If they are lucky the Ukrainian military may have made their deployment moot by then.

Some of the clips of Russian prisoners are sad. Stripped of their equipment and weapons they look rather pathetic. The Beer Belly Brigade that's on it's way to Ukraine don't look much better.

Perhaps they should have set up a recruiting stand on Red Square and signed uo those cheering on Putin as he announced the 'annexations'.

Perhaps dropping pamphlets on them when they arrive in Ukraine saying…

Kill your officers, surrender, and you will be treated to Western hospitality!

signed uo those cheering on Putin

Behold!
Duma member and Siberian Bigfoot hunter Nikolai Valuev is on his way to save the day for Russia, single-handedly, against Ukrainian Mutant Super Nazi Twins Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko.
Both big boys a probable offspring of Dr. Mengele's cloning project in Brazil in the 1960's.

Valuev vs. Klitschko – The Russian Endgame.
At your nearest Theater of War.

With Volodymyr Zelenskyy as Volodymyr Zelenskyy
and Mike Myers in the role of Vladimir Putin.

No sympathy what so ever. They are a bunch of overaged overweight untrained no gooders with zero equipment.

Surrender or die.

At last! A better way to resolve disputes! The Klitschko Twins sound a little long in the tooth, but more than a match for any Duma fat cat oligarch. I sense an Oscar for Myers in this tailor-made role. Or ar least a hot dog.

Sympathy? Maybe later after they surrender and somebody writes a history.

Now that Edward Snowden is a Russian citizen, I'm hoping he finds himself called up to serve his newfound great nation.

I feel so sorry for them that I want to send Jane Fonda to visit the Russian POWs. I hope she'd have the same effect on their morale as she did on ours. Maybe she could move in with Edward.

During most of his "reign" Putin has had strong support from the Russian people. I am sure many of these conscripts were supporters of Putin and his ardent nationalism. Even if they were not, they did nothing to stop him from becoming a dictator. So, I do not feel sympathy for them. You reap what you sow.

At some level, this is just another chapter in the long, long history of the Russian government misusing its citizens' lives for the sake of making the state larger and stronger, and just another chapter in the history of those selfsame citizens complying. That's a tragedy, but it's a tragedy that at some level the Russian state is programmed to repeat every generation and a half or so.

What's new and should be shocking is the way absolutely everyone in authority, East and West, seems to be talking about the use of nuclear weapons with a carelessness and a readiness to casually contemplate what was once unthinkable that I do not remember from the Cold War. That scares the out of me.

Could Cuprum 2 called to files….?

Now… if that happen… wan't to know how he "lern" as he said…

Cero sympathy from my part…

Armand

Nothing new about contemplating use of Nuclear Weapons!
I grew up in 80s. War, with limited use of nukes, was 70% probability.
Certainly West would have HAD to use nukes… and Warsaw Pact, very probably would have initiated Tac Nuke strikes… if playing to win.

'What's new and should be shocking' is Putin using Nukes as a threat… or does he?
I confess… I have not paid much attention to what warped garbage Putin has put out. But… there is a lot of 'inference' and 'interpretation' in much Western Media reportage and speculation.

Has Putin specifically mentioned Nuclear Weapons?
I certainly think that He is capable of authorising use…
But WE would have also done so… and still might.
I want Putin Gone… do not care how.

But… Nukes are NOT going to go away. And only an absolutely Idiotic Leader would say that they would NEVER be used. (J Corbyn?).
One should also remember the hysteria over WMDs before 2nd Gulf.
Nukes exist. One just hopes that Putin is less deranged than he is appearing.

Duma member and Siberian Bigfoot hunter Nikolai Valuev is on his way to save the day for Russia, single-handedly, against Ukrainian Mutant Super Nazi Twins Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko.

Arjuna: I have to admit that I wasn't aware that Valuev was in the Duma and has apparently been there since 2011. My money would be on either Klitschko brother to beat the big Russian giant.

Yeah, I remember the ‘80s, too, and I remember that politicians showed far more caution in what they said about nuclear weapons, and went out of their way to avoid implying they would use them, with the limitations being somewhere in the vicinity of "well, we won't positively declare that we won't use them."

Putin is reckless in his rhetoric, but he ‘s not the only one. People who should know better are making all kinds of threats. This Ukraine situation has lots of potential to escalate, and we ought to be focused on getting the Russians and the Ukrainians to the table as soon as Ukraine can eject the Russians from the territory they've taken. The most recent analogy to the current chest-pounding is the rhetoric of the major powers about mobilization, war, security and preemption that preceded the outbreak of war in 1914, and that is not an encouraging precedent.

Regan and Thatcher were regarded as being 'Off Their Trees'… in UK anyway! But.. I believe Russians, military and political… recognised that They 'WOULD ACT'… and that may have held the Peace.
Putin 'might' be playing same game?
Unbalance/create uncertainty in opponent is fundamental strategy.

I would like to see Ukraine take back areas now under Russian control… but, Crimea? Too big a bite… and little support from population… mainly pro-Russian due to long established Naval Bases.
Think taking back Eastern areas would be a long, hard struggle for Ukraine.. and, now, 'annexed'… so Russians can push in troops.

I do not see much 'chest pounding' from Western Leaders… appear very weak… Putin does it better! 'Advisors' and Media pundits… well!

WW1 .. maybe not best analogy? Treaties/Alliances. Crimean War… fits the biz!

There is no doubt that Putin is intending to throw them under the bus.

And apparently enough of them in the vain hope of slowing the bus down. And then there's the "training"…. the exclamation marks really need to be bigger, much bigger!

YouTube link

+1 Dragon

Were our draftees in Vietnam shown any sympathy by the VC, NVA, Russians and PRC ? Or before that the North Koreans, and again the Russians and PRC in Korea ?

Perhaps dropping pamphlets on them when they arrive in Ukraine saying…

Kill your officers, surrender, and you will be treated to Western hospitality!

Putin's draftees/conscripts should drop their weapons and surrender to the Ukrainian Forces as soon as they can. I doubt they will have to frag their "NCOs(?)" or "Officers(?)"… They will probably be surrendering too.

Yes, maybe the Ukrainians should drop leaflets, telling them to surrender and they will be treated well ? Like we did during Desert Storm. I doubt these Russian draftees are any better than Saddam's forces.

Reminds me of that old saying during the Vietnam era, "What if they gave a war and nobody came ?" …

What's new and should be shocking is the way absolutely everyone in authority, East and West, seems to be talking about the use of nuclear weapons with a carelessness and a readiness to casually contemplate what was once unthinkable that I do not remember from the Cold War. That scares the Bleeped text out of me.

As I said on another thread …

Saw Ret. 4 Star Army GEN Jack Kean on the news. Said that much of Putin's talk is just saber rattling for local consumption. But again, when it comes to nukes, he said we have to take it seriously. But don't overreact …

He also said, IF Russia used nukes in Ukraine. The US[maybe some others in NATO?] would retaliate with non-nuke missiles, air strikes and drones. And wipe out everything the Russians have in the Ukraine.

That makes sense …

Would Putin be stupid enough to attack NATO ? I doubt that would happen.

My understanding is Putin has marginalized the general Russian population, so while these guys being drafted are not slaves their agency is fairly limited. So yes I empathy for them, but having said that I hope the Ukrainian are as successful against them as they were with the "regular" army.

"Putin's draftees/conscripts should drop their weapons and surrender to the Ukrainian Forces as soon as they can. I doubt they will have to frag their "NCOs(?)" or "Officers(?)"… They will probably be surrendering too…"

Agree… but what about their families at home…?

What the gang of Putin did to them…?

Armand

but having said that I hope the Ukrainian are as successful against them as they were with the "regular" army.

Very highly unlikely these guys pressed into service for Putin are any better than the rest of the Russian Army.

Agree… but what about their families at home…?

What the gang of Putin did to them…?

How does he know these guys surrendered ? The Russians are being pushed back daily. Or want about those men that fled Russia ? Is Putin going to kill or intern everyone ?

+1 Nine Pound. At least 2 administrations have gone by with no real diplomacy efforts from what I see, admittedly I watch very little infotainment news nowadays with it's sound bites. Now it all sounds like "Oh yeah, well we're going to do this!".

I have some sympathy for the Russian grunts. I doubt there's a whole lot of choice when they come to get you, and this seems to be the Russian way (A'stan, Chechnya?). Maybe having some sympathy at some level is how this crap stops. Syria still fighting? Serbia and Co? Doubtful some Russia 20yr old is going to pop Putin. Maybe for all that money kissed away to our fav 3 letter offices can come up with some kind of plan to help someone make a decision to end Putin's rule? Doubt it. Maybe the Brits can help us out here, they seem to be better at it. Weren't US officers in communication with Iraqi officers pre-gulf 1 to try and get some action or inaction? Are we even thinking of this, or are we going to rah-rah-rah our way through Moscow? Curious because I don't think I've heard what the stop line is.

You reap what you sow.

Yep, you sure do.

t.me/magnat_ua/1738

Some Russians who just want a good time and get a bomb in the head for it.

Never give head when there is a drone overhead…

And Putin says WE are decadent…

200,000 Reservists Have Been Added To The Military

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Russia's reservists called-up for Ukraine war train to fight

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Armand