"Interesting Tactics" Topic

Wish I had the link for this. Was earlier watching interview with several Ukrainian soldiers about an attack on a Russian outpost near Izium (as I recall).

The unit commander (4 tanks) was dismounted, located where he could see drone footage.

They said the Russians did not expect them to have tanks.

The Ukrainian tanks advanced through a minefield. One fellow said it took bravery to advance through a minefield, while another fellow said sappers cleared the path.

The tanks advanced, fired all of their ammo within 4 minutes, then withdrew to rearm. They did this four times.

Wonder if they were carrying 100% HE, but yeah, modern tanks have very limited magazines. The T-72 even has a smidge less than the 120mm Abrams or the Leopard II.

125mm HE should be extremely destructive, but high velocity smoothbores aren't the best for digging troops out of trenches. They're not quite as effective against buildings as I'd expected, either.

Hi Bill,emckinney,

Is the link you're talking about?

YouTube link

"fired all of their ammo within 4 minutes, then withdrew to rearm. They did this four times."

What was the Russian response? Did they just sit there and take the punishment? Did they call up reinforcements and counter attack? Deploy anti tank assets to deal with the problem? Russian lack of capability and incompetence is mind boggling. The Russians better pray to God they never go up against the USA it would be a slaughter like Desert Storm.

Small unit actions like this are going to be fun to wargame at some future date with the wild variety of equipment and kit. It is almost like Peter Pigs AK47 Republic. (Diplomatic table for AK47 could be quite hilarious, drunkeness, out of fuel, no ammo etc…)

yes, thanks

@Pelo thanks for the link

You're welcome

The tanks may not have been operating with a maximum ammunition load for safety reasons. The rounds stored in the main autoloader carousels of Soviet designed tanks are dangerous enough in terms of causing catastrophic explosion, but there are other rounds stowed around the fighting compartment that are even worse.

The tanks may not have been operating with a maximum ammunition load for safety reasons.

The T-72 can apparently carry 45 rounds, 22 of which are in the carousel. The video mentions firing "all 22" rounds, so they are apparently only loading the carousel.

Makes sense if they are operating close to their first line logistics.

Ukrainian commanders may also be husbanding ammunition. I've certainly seen it reported that one of the reasons for slower progress and Ukrainian causalities is a lack ammunition. Though I think that may specifically relate to artillery since the article wasn't terribly specific, but it would have made sense in the context, which was also discussing the continued effect of Russian artillery fire.

I'd say advancing through a minefield takes bravery even with sappers….

That is an interesting tactic … crossing a minefield, then opening up with all you got on the enemy positions. Using the old Shoot & Scoot … 4 times.

Good points Dragon Gunner +1.

Makes sense if they are operating close to their first line logistics.

Normally in the US Army, the forward Log Point is called the Combat Trains. And are 3-5Ks behind the frontlines. The Ukrainians may be using something like that. As they have been receiving US/NATO training since 2015.

I'd say advancing through a minefield takes bravery even with sappers….

Indeed, if they had US MICLICs that would make clearing lanes in a minefield much easier. I don't think they have any ?

We were trained to clear mines by hand. That could be very dicey for real. Never pick up a mine once found, it may have an anti-handling device and BOOOOoooooom ! Mark it and let the CEs or EOD blow it place.

Four times… I'm wondering if four tanks have unloaded 22 rounds of 5" HE three times, what's left to shoot at?

The Ukrainians will be de-mining their country for a decade.

I imagine reloading the auto loader takes a certain amount of time and is best done with the tank stationary. I doubt that the tank commander would want to wait around while that is done. if he stood up in the hatch, raised his hand, and called for a timeout to reload the Russians may not honor his request.

Loading big shells like MBTs use today will take a little time … they are rather heavy.

"We were trained to clear mines by hand. That could be very dicey for real. Never pick up a mine once found, it may have an anti-handling device and BOOOOoooooom ! Mark it and let the CEs or EOD blow it place."

Were the Ukrainians using pressure washers? "Special hoses" may be a mistranslation, but I've seen mineclearing with rifles, so nothing it out of the question.

"The T-72 can apparently carry 45 rounds, 22 of which are in the carousel. The video mentions firing "all 22" rounds, so they are apparently only loading the carousel."

Not necessarily. They could have had everything loaded and then just pulled to covered positions to reload the carousel.

"What was the Russian response? Did they just sit there and take the punishment? Did they call up reinforcements and counter attack? Deploy anti tank assets to deal with the problem?"

The Ukrainians said they destroyed the first line of defense and then the tanks pulled back. Since they were operating with infantry, it makes sense that the infantry moved into those positions. Russian troops in the front line may have retreated to the next positions, if able.

Were the Ukrainians using pressure washers? "Special hoses" may be a mistranslation, but I've seen mineclearing with rifles, so nothing it out of the question.

I'm not sure what they were using. But you can probe with a bayonet on the end of your rifle. It is better than nothing and when they find one, mark it. Don't touch it. Mark lanes with White Engineer tape, etc.

BTW we'd use mine detectors if available.

In modern warfare AFAIK the best way to clear a minefield is a MICLIC or/and MBTs with mine plows. Or by pass it but that is always not an option.

They could have had everything loaded and then just pulled to covered positions to reload the carousel.

That would be a better way to do it. It would be quicker.

Since they were operating with infantry, it makes sense that the infantry moved into those positions. Russian troops in the front line may have retreated to the next positions, if able.

That sounds like that is what would happen. Yes, they know how to fight combined arms … the Russian don't seem to want to be bothered. Just keep pushing bodies and vehicles into a WWI type scenario.

@Emckinny

I can read and listen just like you! There was no Russian response to this attack other than to get pummeled in place while the tanks departed, reloaded and returned four times. Retreating I don't consider much of a response.

I never said anything about the Ukrainian tactics…

cant get that vid to load
whats the story with mineploughs?

Mine plow – Mounted on the front of an MBT, like a dozer blade. But the mine plow skims just below the dirt/sand and pushes the mines out of the way making a lane. And yes some of the mines may detonate. But would rarely damage the plow if ever.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_plow

link

Talk about the 600 ft. general

Talk about the 600 ft. general

Who ? What ?

"Talk about the 600 ft. general"

I believe he is referring to the drone operating commander.

whats the story with mineploughs?

Problem is that they don't work too well in forests.

One perennial complaint about war gaming is that COs have perfect knowledge of the battlefield situation, you stand at one side of the game looking across the battlefield as though you were a 600 foot general.

believe he is referring to the drone operating commander.

Ah yes, one of our Bn Cdrs was that way in a OH-58. Called him the Squad Ldr in the sky … 😁

Problem is that they don't work too well in forests.

That is why there are a number of other devices, e.g. GPR, high tech Mine Detectors, Robots, etc. However, it will just take longer. So if possible by pass. But again it come down to terrain & situation.

Also, FWIW in Iraq the MICLIC did a pretty good job clearing a street of not just mines/IEDs but the bad guys hiding in houses.