 Editor in Chief Bill   | 07 Sep 2022 9:30 p.m. PST |
The names of Robert E. Lee and other less famous Confederate officers should be removed from landmarks and memorials at West Point and the U.S. Naval Academy, a commission created by Congress says… Military: link |
| Editor in Chief Bill | 07 Sep 2022 10:22 p.m. PST |
The discovery of a plaque showing a member of the Ku Klux Klan at the US military academy made headlines. One member of the commission which recommended its removal is a historian of the US army and the lost cause myth The Guardian: link |
Fitzovich  | 08 Sep 2022 3:04 a.m. PST |
I completely agree that they should be removed. |
| Cardinal Ximenez | 08 Sep 2022 3:30 a.m. PST |
Hopefully there will also be a serious effort to change the name of Yale University. |
| 35thOVI | 08 Sep 2022 4:03 a.m. PST |
Before everyone gets their panties in a wad again. This was all covered in another thread in TMP, including why the KKK portion is there, pictures of all, and everything in context of why it is there. There was no great conspiracy. |
| 35thOVI | 08 Sep 2022 4:15 a.m. PST |
The thread was on the 29th Division patch under attack (blue and grey division) Here is a link out of it on the KKK plague in context of location and reason Subject: Ku Klux Klan plaque mounted on West Point's campus, congressional commission finds | Fox News
link |
| Escapee | 08 Sep 2022 4:22 a.m. PST |
Thanks 35th. We did appear to get this sorted out on the other thread. |
| mildbill | 08 Sep 2022 5:55 a.m. PST |
Old Abe was too soft on slavery. We should cancel him. |
 Legion 4 | 08 Sep 2022 6:34 a.m. PST |
Yes, I posted this article here on TMP – TMP link So yes we discuss this topic there already … |
| cavcrazy | 08 Sep 2022 7:05 a.m. PST |
Yet again, another topic which has nothing to do with miniature wargames. |
| 35thOVI | 08 Sep 2022 8:20 a.m. PST |
Well to be honest ultramodern really has very little that I have seen, to do with gaming. Mostly talk about current world conflicts, or the potential for new ones. |
marmont1814  | 08 Sep 2022 9:03 a.m. PST |
what a dumb decision, carry in you wont have any history in America, these guys did nothing wromng they defended their states, the union are the tyrants imposing their rule |
| donlowry | 08 Sep 2022 9:26 a.m. PST |
the union are the tyrants imposing their rule You mean the rule of the duly elected President? |
| Khalid bin Walid | 08 Sep 2022 10:28 a.m. PST |
Doesn't matter. This country is a victim of it's own success. As every successful nation must be. Because Human Nature. |
| GROSSMAN | 08 Sep 2022 2:04 p.m. PST |
Yes, lets erase history because it offends us… |
| Thresher01 | 08 Sep 2022 2:36 p.m. PST |
When will those that served with, and/or revered a former KKK Grand Cyclops be removed from office, and/or prevented from running again, and when will the guy who aligned himself with the KKK supporters/members be removed too? |
| Stryderg | 08 Sep 2022 5:58 p.m. PST |
A radio commentator was asking just yesterday: We spent a lot of money to remove statues last year. How has your life improved since then? |
| 35thOVI | 08 Sep 2022 6:19 p.m. PST |
Answer: not a bit and it will never ever, ever, ever be enough. As I have quoted so often before: "Doing right ain't got no end"
"The Outlaw Josey Wales"
link |
| Legion 4 | 08 Sep 2022 7:39 p.m. PST |
👍👍 Many good comments … Yet again, another topic which has nothing to do with miniature wargames. And yet Bill still posted them … So he must think there is something worth a discussion ? |
| Bunkermeister | 08 Sep 2022 9:27 p.m. PST |
Every American Indian tribe that fought against the USA should have their name removed from helicopters too. Keep destroying our history because that way we won't have any reason to fight for what we have because we won't know where we came from. Mike Bunkermeister Creek |
| 35thOVI | 09 Sep 2022 3:29 a.m. PST |
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| Trajanus | 09 Sep 2022 8:06 a.m. PST |
Every American Indian tribe that fought against the USA should have their name removed from helicopters too. Oh yes, I'd forgotten how insistent they were in having their names taken in the first place, they clean forgot they were spelled in English! |
| Escapee | 09 Sep 2022 10:39 a.m. PST |
What if we just kept everything, but added back all the stuff that was cancelled earlier? We have erased things because they offended us, embarrassed us, etc. I was astounded to learn about the Tulsa massacre a few years ago, had no idea Wilson was a racist either. I had accepted cozy Lost Cause history for years. Sherman was a warmonger, Grant a drinker with a disregard for the lives of his troops?
Yes we need to know where we came from without the flaws getting edited out.
Grant has been the most profound revelation in recent years. Reclaiming the truth is part of history. I want all of our history restored and preserved. Leave the statues and explain them. Taxpayers and citizens spent a lot more money putting up statues than we do removing them. Nobody's life improved when we put some of them up either. The commentary misses the point. I say leave em and put ‘em in context. This topic is not about miniatures. But is is about history, upon which we base much of the enjoyment of the hobby. The original post about West Point was much better understood on the other thread once we got the context of the artwork involved. It was about history also. |
| 35thOVI | 09 Sep 2022 12:18 p.m. PST |
Ahh Tort. Logic and reason. "Context". I fully agree, but obviously both sides. The Bad of Monroe, must be offset by the good. The Same with a Lee. Etc. I find it hard to hate Arnold. He did do great and brave things. Before he let his overriding ego, perceived and very real personal slights and a Tory woman override that good and tried to sell out his budding nation. But we should know both sides of the man. I find it much easier to Despise Burr and Wilkerson. Yes I agree with you. But many for the destruction, will not. |
| Legion 4 | 09 Sep 2022 4:37 p.m. PST |
Well AFAIK the only US chopper that is not named after an indigenous people/"American Indian tribe" is the AH1 Cobra.
The latest US chopper is named "Lakota", IIRC. Has anyone complained about the names of the choppers ? I want all of our history restored and preserved. Leave the statues and explain them. Agreed ! I say leave em and put ‘em in context. Logical & reason … Bingo ! |
| Trajanus | 10 Sep 2022 9:03 a.m. PST |
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Black Hawk counts. He was a person not a tribe. He was from the Sauk people, though I guess having UH-60 Ma-kat-tai-me-she-kia-kiak on the inventory would be kind of awkward. Could have gone with UH-60 Sauk I suppose, at least that would be in keeping with the others. |
| mikec260 | 10 Sep 2022 1:37 p.m. PST |
Sin is in every life. When do we learn to forgive and move on. Learn from the past, don't ignore or hide it. Grow from it. |
| Legion 4 | 10 Sep 2022 6:06 p.m. PST |
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Black Hawk counts. The UH-60 Black Hawk is named after an American Indian/indigenous peoples Chief. So, it does count IMO, it is in honor of an American Indian leader, instead of a tribe. So yes I was not quite accurate enough saying all US Army helicopters are named after Indian tribes but the AH1 Cobra. But again the UH-60 is named after an American Indian Chief in his honor … close enough for gov't work.
Learn from the past, don't ignore or hide it. Grow from it. Bingo ! |
