"an actual Spanish empire in North America?" Topic

An exercise in alternate history

Coronado and DeSoto explored North America at the same time (Coronado 1540-1542 and DeSoto 1539-1542). Their impact was mainly negative, and had little long-term benefit to Spain. This was because their focus was on gold; finding little or none, they represented a dead-end for Spain.

But what if the Spanish had decided -- this is the alt history part -- to make North America a major venue for colonization? Ponder a deliberate and sustained effort to colonize North America, perhaps with multiple interlocking colonies in both the Southeast and the Southwest. The two expeditions demonstrated that the Spanish were invincible vis a vis the natives. So the Crown decides to send not just soldiers and missionary priests, but families, into NA. Does it succeed? If it does it changes everything.

The main rival and obstacle would have been France. We actually have some conflicts between Spanish Texas and French-dominated natives. Would Spanish colonisation have pushed the French into the same?

You could adjust it somewhat. France, The Netherlands, Sweden and, to a lesser degree, England all went to the New World for fur. Nothing says the Spanish could not have taken an interest in fur and gotten there before the others.

They sorta did in Florida, along the Gulf Coast (e.g. New Orleans), in the southwest and in California. Not to the same scale as central and south America, but enough to leave us with lots of western cities with Spanish names and the oldest "colony" city in America – Saint Augustine in Florida. Maybe if they had found more gold or the Fountain of Youth, they would have tried harder. ;-)

Hmmm. So the Spanish get spread even thinner? My first thought is that the big winners would be native populations in Peru and the Yucatan. (A Spain willing to send out serious numbers of peasants would be a very different Spain.)

What are we trying to do here? If it's just a battle generator, then yeah, sure, woodland tribes accompanied by early couriers du bois clash with plains tribes accompanied by late Conquistadores, or the other way around. Possibly worth noting that any sort of serious colonization--sending over farmers as well as governors--is usually incompatible with good relations with the natives. It's also worth asking what the British are doing instead. Rather than British Honduras and a handful of sugar islands, do they get most of the sugar islands and all the isthmus?

Personally, I go with "alt hist" for miniatures out to a max of about twenty years post-1500, and maybe a little longer earlier. Beyond that, you're in the exclusive domain of novelists. I think I'm being generous. Further out than that, the history will have generated new uniforms, weapons and tactics.

Oh. And the Spanish were "invincible vis a vis the natives" in a very narrow window--as is usually the case. March through the same lands five or ten years later, and the natives will have stolen and bred horses, learned from captured Spaniards, and talked over "lessons learned" from Spanish tactics. The thing about being a colonial power is that there's always a Little Big Horn, an Adowa, an Isandlwana or a Dien Bien Phu in your future, and usually sooner than you think.

The Spanish also tried to enforce a claim to the Pacific Northwest, even building Fort San Miguel (garrisoned by Mexicans) on Vancouver Island. Arresting British trading ships led to the diplomatic squabble called "The Nootka Sound Incident" that nearly led to war. But the Spanish felt they could not face Britain without the help of France, currently busy with their Revolution. Spain backed down and the fort dismantled.

Would be a different approach to the classical Spanish way of running their colonies/Empire; would make for an interesting game!

The Russians also had a fort in California, Fort Ross, which the Spanish allowed them the space for trading and furs. They brought down Eskimos from Alaska to serve the fort's occupants in raising food etc. In fact I just toured it last month.

Didn't they have a little one in Southern California until Zorro showed up and wrecked it ?

Russ Dunaway

In 1720 the Spanish in New Mexico sent out the Villasur Expedition to counter what they saw as French influence on the Great Plains. It did not end well.

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