Mr Elmo | 21 Aug 2022 11:13 a.m. PST |
This is an interesting read: link Gen Con supports diverse identities: Convention badges sport ribbons saying "Gaymer" or listing wearers' pronouns. With many convention-goers dressed as elves, the welcome goes way beyond the gender binary: Become the sexy vampire you've always wanted to be, or just the person you actually are.Which, for some hardcore geeks, means being conservative. They might like "gaymes" and Donald Trump. They might celebrate the latest release from Magic: The Gathering and the overturning of Roe v. Wade. |
Flashman14 | 21 Aug 2022 12:28 p.m. PST |
Those comments though. Soon that piece will have been authored by a former professor. |
CeruLucifus | 21 Aug 2022 12:31 p.m. PST |
Regrettably you should probably cross-post to one of the TMP Plus boards. (Is The Blue Fez still around? I couldn't find on a quick search.) How are politics improved if the elves abandon Indiana to the orcs? This is a worthwhile question. The counterargument is this: Martin Niemöller's Quote at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum: link |
PzGeneral | 21 Aug 2022 12:49 p.m. PST |
ORIGINS has been having 'Gaymer" badges for quite awhile. IMHO, by GAMA trying to become 'inclusive' they are becoming exclusive. As someone who goes just to play games and not support a cause I feel very left out. Of course, I go to play miniatures games….and we have been increasingly shunned at ORIGINS for some time…. Dave |
MrMagoo | 21 Aug 2022 12:49 p.m. PST |
The author of the article makes a good, valid point. One doesn't attend a game convention to be bombarded by politics. One goes there to play games. Full stop. Unfortunately, there are people that haven't learned the lesson that has hit professional sports.. wading into political waters will *always* alienate a huge portion of your audience. Pro sports support has been steadily dropping for the past few years since they decided to be outspoken about politics. Sports, like gaming, is (at least used to be) a form of escapism from the issues of daily life. When people insist on injecting those issues into places formerly free of politics, the result is generally negative and people will stop participating. Gaming doesn't need to go there. Keep politics outside of the gaming conventions. |
PzGeneral | 21 Aug 2022 12:59 p.m. PST |
MrMagoo +1. I made that exact same decision; I've stopped attending ORIGINS and now go exclusively to the smaller "games days' put on by local clubs. |
advocate | 21 Aug 2022 1:34 p.m. PST |
I'm not sure what to say about this. I want everyone to be able to game. Would I attend if they vocally opposed my views on abortion? Quite possibly not. So maybe – maybe – gamers en masse should stay quiet when meeting up to game. Certainly our club tried to hold to a 'No politics' rule during the two recent referenda in Scotland and the UK (we were not always successful). But we don't need to (and arguably shouldn't) keep quiet in the wider world, pace Pastor Niemoller |
Murphy | 21 Aug 2022 3:23 p.m. PST |
Allow me folks to bloviate a little and toss in my dos centavos on this please. It may be a little long but there are some things that need to be said. 1: The Indiana Law does not go into effect until Sept. 15th, "IF" even then. There is a very good chance it will be challenged in court. 2: Even if it goes into effect, there are still provisions for women getting abortion, just not the provision that they use it as a form of birth control due to bad choices/decisions/"he didn't want to wear a rubber", etc…Which sadly enough a lot of abortions actually are. (I know four women that have had abortions and only one was for medical reasons; the other three were for their own choices which didn't involve the health of mother or baby.) 3: The recent decision by SCOTUS on Roe vs Wade NEVER DID "outlaw" or "ban" abortion as some folks would want you to believe. SCOTUS simply sent the issue back to where it should have been decided all along- back to the states per the 10th Amendment. There are still states where women can go for abortions. 4: Gen Con has a history of politicization starting the last 10-15 years, (and it ramped with with a couple of people in charge who essentially moved the concepts of social justice into the company's function.) I won't name the people, but you only have to look at their staff and you can probably guess who they are. 5: Gen Con released the statement about this because as usual in typical Gen Con manner, they allude each year with "being forced to move Gen Con from Indy because of _________ (insert latest reason here*). They did the same thing with RFRA back in 2015, (this is what started the "Gaymer" ribbon, (More on that in a moment)… 6: Gen Con threatened in 2015-2016 to move the convention from Indy to "somewhere else". However, Gen Con also foolishly realized that they were locked in contract until 2020. Sure they could break that contract and pay Indy big bucks. They even pushed out a couple of survey polls to see where people wanted to go. After the usual stupid answer that people give, Gen Con realized that honestly, there is no REAL place that they can go in the Midwest that wouldn't break them. Chicago? Nope…Union fees alone would overwhelm them, as well as the crime rate. Every place Gen Con looked was MORE expensive, harder to get to, and had less accommodations and support than Indy. So Gen Con shut up about it. 7: Gen Con then signed an extension until 2021…upon which they then signed a contract to be in Indy until 2026. Rumors are right now that they are in long term planning for a possible move after, but once again it's a money thing. 8: Gen Con lost money BIG in 2020, with the cancellation, and the smaller attendance in 2021 didn't help. The draconian vaccination and mask policy also didn't help, as well as many staff/volunteers NOT being trained in knowing what to look for in people who for medical reasons cannot mask. This year, they made a good showing, but their bank account STILL isn't where they want it to be, as a lot of people read what they were requiring and said "Thanks but no thanks". 9: Gen Cons Corp Office is out of Seattle Washington and the people there and a lot of supporters have an idea that "since they get to come to Indy for maybe a week for a convention" that they should tell everyone else who lives here the other 51 weeks of the year "how to live". 10: Expense. Gen Con is now very expensive to attend, (Buy a badge, then pay to play games.), and if you haven't a clue what to do, you end up spending a lot of money doing nothing but wandering around a massively crowded dealers room. I spend half as much money at Little Wars and I have a better time. 11: Gen Con is very well known now for it's "inclusiveness" to the point of "exclusiveness" or "soft segregation". An example of this was this latest cons, "BIPOC lounge/room". A lounge/room at Gen Con that was dedicated strictly to "Black, Indigenous, and People of Color". (In other words, "White folks while not officially banned, were discouraged, or made to feel "unwelcome" cuz you know…white folks…"). Naturally there wasn't a "White folks room." because you know…that would've been racist…and made someone uncomfortable. 12: The Gaymer ribbon is a topic that came about in 2015-2016 as a result of the RFRA in Indiana. Many long term attendees to Gen Con of the LGBTQA (insert your favorite letter or number of the week here), community (egged on by Salesforce, and George Takei), suddenly felt that they were "targeted for discrimination by hostile Hoosiers" (which didn't happen), and besides demanding "safe spaces" (which some of them actually DID demand, but Indy and Gen Con were smart enough at the time NOT to give in to that), then went with the GAYMER ribbon as a show of "love and support for the LGBTQA community". Oddly enough when I asked if in equality we could also have a "Straight Gamer" ribbon. I was told "No". I then asked "Why would anyone, especially Gen Con as a corp entity, would feel that a person needs to identify their sexual preference, orientation, or posture on a ribbon at a game convention? It's a game convention, not a place to hook-up, (although believe it or not that does happen), and it has nothing to do with gaming." I was told to shut up and threatened with being removed and banned from the forum site that I was a member of. 13: Gen Con's policies continue to move the corporate business focus towards the left with the SJW/woke policies, (I can discuss more of this in PM's as this is already getting too long), and there are already some small rumblings of disagreement from many of the folks that support this and ORIGINS as well, (The whole Satine Phoenix fiasco was something else not to be proud of, and neither was the drunk and horny artist, or the guy that brought the club girls to the con to twerk on the game tables on Sunday morning). As a final note, while Gen Con IS the largest convention in Indianapolis, the city does host numerous conventions from the same organizations each year, and there are only way too many more groups that would happily jump into Gen Cons space at the ICC if they decided to pull out. The City of Indy busts its' butt each year to make sure that Gen Con is supported, serviced, and supplied. From permits, to safety, to transportation, to EMS and Police Services. While Indy does have some problems due to the bumbling current mayor that is in office who never misses a photo op, but can't seem to keep the potholes fixed, it does do a good job supporting the convention, and the relationship overall is a good one. The only drawback is when the convention and a Colts pre-season game are scheduled the same weekend. For the miniature gamer; the choice gets smaller and smaller. IMHO, if you are looking for miniature games, Gen Con isn't "the place". (Especially if it's historical minis). Thank you for reading this long piece… And yes, if anyone has any questions or wishes to discuss this further, I'll be happy to discuss in PM's. |
torokchar | 21 Aug 2022 3:51 p.m. PST |
That is why I have stopped visiting (and spending my money) at a number of game stores here in my town. |
robert piepenbrink | 21 Aug 2022 5:48 p.m. PST |
One might almost think there was a reason politics and religion were among the topics not discussed in the mess. And for many, modern politics seems very much to be a religion. |
PzGeneral | 21 Aug 2022 5:51 p.m. PST |
Thanks Murphy for the insight. And the explanation of point 2. Things you don't hear in the news. And when in discussions on the topic and I bring up point 3, I see peoples eyes glaze over or they argue I don;t know what I'm talking about. Sad we have to have politics in everything these days…. Dave |
Murphy | 21 Aug 2022 6:58 p.m. PST |
PZGeneral; The ones that get me are when they say "They took away my Constitutional Right!" And I say "Show me in The Constitution where is says you can have an abortion…." |
Grattan54 | 21 Aug 2022 8:33 p.m. PST |
Wow Murp it sounds like you ran into some of the famous liberal tolerance and openness. What I found funny in the article was that the people who oppose the killing of unborn children were called inhumane and the ones who want to kill them are in fact humane. Welcome to 1984 everybody. |
Zephyr1 | 21 Aug 2022 10:02 p.m. PST |
(opens a can of worms) "They took away my Constitutional Right!" "Show me in The Constitution where it says you can have an abortion…." Pretty sure it's in the USSR Constitution somewhere (probably the one they mean… ;-) It's all moot to me, anyway, as GenCon is too far away to drive to… ;-) |
Mr Elmo | 21 Aug 2022 11:14 p.m. PST |
Naturally there wasn't a "White folks room." If there is a BIPOC room, there should be a WASP room. Elmo did not go because of the mask and vaccine stupidity. My pronouns are "your highness" or "your magesty" |
HMS Exeter | 21 Aug 2022 11:58 p.m. PST |
Wha'll I pur's'nully qualify in de cart'd'gory descrabbed as CisMale, I self identify as BroMale, and, as such, I expect y'all to… respect mah authoritah! |
HMS Exeter | 22 Aug 2022 12:04 a.m. PST |
The current Administration in Florida has had a ball playing piñata with Mickey Mouse, who has been comparatively muted in response. They would do well not to push their luck. If Mickey slips the leash on their pack of lawyers, who would make Florida's lawyers seem a pack of chihuahuas, the result would seem not unlike,…oh, what's the phrase? Atlas shrugged. |
Zhao Zilong | 22 Aug 2022 6:49 a.m. PST |
Our club also tried a no politics rule during the Scottish/EU referendums, which was likewise not always successful, but it remained civil. I got more annoyed going to Glasgow comic con were a group of Imperial Stormtroopers had brought their flags, and gave out 'Yes' stickers and pamphlets. At that point politics was everywhere and I just thought it had no place at an event like that – can't we have a day off from it. |
Raynman | 22 Aug 2022 10:25 a.m. PST |
Murphy, if you are referring to Little Wars in the Chicago area, tell me when you are going. I'd like to meet you! You sound like a rational human being. |
Shark Six Three Zero | 22 Aug 2022 12:17 p.m. PST |
POlitics ruins everything. :^( |
Col Durnford | 22 Aug 2022 2:36 p.m. PST |
The problem is some folks don't accept peaceful co-existence with diverse viewpoints. Anything less than celebrating their cause make you the enemy. |
Mini Wanderer | 22 Aug 2022 4:16 p.m. PST |
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rmaker | 22 Aug 2022 7:31 p.m. PST |
The most important reason to skip GenCon, in my opinion, is that it is not a gaming convention. It is a media convention where some gaming goes on. |
Murphy | 23 Aug 2022 9:24 a.m. PST |
rmaker, you are essentially close to correct. While "gaming" is still advertised as "the fundamental focus", and it's still called "the best four days in gaming", the con has expanded so much into cosplay, pop culture, fringe fun, etc. also. They have "nights" at the bars, a ball, and for a while there was "Gen Con After Dark", (*ahem*). No need to discuss that any further. Its becoming more and more of a corporate sponsored big name pop culture con than anything else. An example of this was that "Open gaming", this year wasn't even at the con site but in a room at the Westin Hotel. |
TSD101 | 23 Aug 2022 10:06 a.m. PST |
Gen Con could be held 5 minutes from my house and I still wouldn't go. The absurd notion of paying $125 USD for a badge then having to pay more for any event seems ridiculous to me. That said, I am glad historical miniature wargaming is a niche hobby as it hasn't been overly infested with this kind of garbage yet. I will not be preached to while trying to enjoy something that is supposed to be an escape from the problems of day to day life. I am an adult, I can form my own opinions and I don't need anyone else's shoved down my throat. |
ConnaughtRanger | 23 Aug 2022 2:16 p.m. PST |
My personal view is that immediately prior to the opening of all UK Wargames Shows, all the gamers, traders, club officials and attendees in the queue outside should be required to 'take a knee' to identify with the suffering of our Afro-American Cousins. |
Parzival | 23 Aug 2022 3:54 p.m. PST |
I used to dream of going to GenCon when I was in high school from 1980-84. Should have gone— I'd have had a lot of fun. But in recent years, even pre-woke, I realized it's an overpriced, over-crowded mess. I'll stick with local cons. Or maybe look at GaryCon, in Lake Geneva. |
snurl1 | 24 Aug 2022 2:18 a.m. PST |
GaryCon is getting very full very fast, with some folks pushing to make it "just like GenCon". Enjoy it while you can. |
TSD101 | 24 Aug 2022 2:54 p.m. PST |
And to think that I whinge about $45 USD USD to get in the door at Fall In! Now imagine on top of that having to spend $350 USD a night for a hotel room (if you can even find one within 30 minutes of the venue) and be elbow to elbow with 50,000+ other individuals who may or may not practice personal hygiene. But hey, at least they'll tell you they're vaxxed. |
Mr Elmo | 25 Aug 2022 4:04 a.m. PST |
Edit; HMGS conventions are full of grumpy old white men |
Long Valley Gamer | 25 Aug 2022 7:10 a.m. PST |
The people making these woke decisions aren't very good business people. When your trying to sell a product you don't alienate a substantial percentage of your customers. |
Parzival | 25 Aug 2022 8:20 a.m. PST |
On a side note, I've often heard about "gamer funk", but never experienced it. Then I happened to pass through the tournament section of a con and caught a whiff. Yegads! I've smelled better locker rooms! I walked quicker… Nothing on the play for fun half of the con, by the way— "phew" on the play to WIN half. Maybe there's something in that observation, maybe not. |