Worgaimz | 14 Aug 2022 4:36 a.m. PST |
A few shots of some M10s that I have just completed for my own Normandy British. A troop of M10 Achilles and a troop of M10 Wolverines. Kits are UM and the crew are predominantly AB. Note after asking here and elsewhere their soft headgear are painted khaki. I used them in a game at the club yesterday and they didn't perform at all well, in fact they took a real mauling and casualties were high!!
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MajorB | 14 Aug 2022 4:59 a.m. PST |
I used them in a game at the club yesterday and they didn't perform at all well, in fact they took a real mauling and casualties were high!! You have to use them like anti-tank guns, not tanks. Shoot and scoot is the order of the day. |
Timbo W | 14 Aug 2022 6:29 a.m. PST |
Rule 1 of WW2 wargaming: A newly painted vehicle always explodes. |
smithsco | 14 Aug 2022 6:59 a.m. PST |
I have a whole bunch of tank destroyers in my 20mm American force. Only ever actually use M36 Jacksons and those only as anti vehicle snipers. No ability to close and fight. |
Steamingdave2 | 14 Aug 2022 9:45 a.m. PST |
@wargaimz I have quite a few M10 and M18 20mm models, they usually got shot to the proverbial as well in my games. "Scoot and shoot" might have worked in real life, but not in the wargame rules I have used. :(- |
Thresher01 | 14 Aug 2022 3:22 p.m. PST |
Nice looking vehicles. Thanks for sharing. Yea, the armor on them is only good to protect from MGs and HE shrapnel. If they get hit by A/T rounds they're dead. |
Murvihill | 15 Aug 2022 5:05 a.m. PST |
If your guys had helmets instead of those soft, squishy caps they would have survived! |
deadhead | 15 Aug 2022 8:08 a.m. PST |
My understanding is that, all too often TDs were used like tanks. Instead what you have is a very powerful self-propelled anti-tank gun. The crew enjoy the benefit of not having to unlimber in an emergency, ammo is ready to hand and traversing a turret (even if a bit slow on an Achilles) is much easier than turning a large A/T gun. The crew enjoy armour protection against what was normally thrown against A/T guns i.e. HE and MG fire. OK, the downside is a much higher profile, so concealment is harder. So find a hull down position and, in defence, they are unbeatable (by tanks anyway). Oh and I forgot to say how appealing are the models |
John The Limey | 19 Aug 2022 11:35 a.m. PST |
TD's in the British Army were used differently to their use in the US Army. There was no such thing as a Tank Destroyer Doctrine in the UK, and instead the TD's were crewed by Royal Artillery, and formed part of the Anti-Tank sections for units. |
deadhead | 19 Aug 2022 1:40 p.m. PST |
Which was very sensible. But was that so different to how US Army INTENDED them to be used? Stress the intended. I have seen so many photos of 2eme DB TDs in Paris in August 1944 in FIBUA. Madness. Same in Southern France after Dragoon. I do hope this discussion continues, as it could be very interesting. |
TacticalPainter01 | 19 Aug 2022 3:58 p.m. PST |
That probably explains the design of the Archer. The 17pdr on a Valentine chassis but with the gun facing the rear. Treated as a mobile AT gun the intention that it serves a defensive role is clear in the design and the readiness to shoot and scoot. Has a lower profile than the other TDs. Here's mine, model from Early War Miniatures and crew from AB.
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Murvihill | 21 Aug 2022 4:56 a.m. PST |
Archer was an attempt to keep using the Valentine hull after the tank was hopelessly obsolete. The gun went over the engine because it would hang out too far in front. More serendipity for shoot-and-scoot than planning. I wonder if they had a rear-facing control station? Backing it up must have been a nightmare. |
AuvergneWargamer | 30 Nov 2022 12:52 a.m. PST |
I did enjoy reading this. I too have some Archers from EWM which I shall now prioritise!! |
hayesncsu | 30 Nov 2022 9:17 p.m. PST |
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