ScottyOZ | 08 Aug 2022 10:04 p.m. PST |
Hi all, I'm not sure of the demographics of TMP but I'm an older gamer (56) and recently I have managed to capture the attention of a younger crowd of gamers who are dead keen to start Napolenonics. They are the friends of my son and generally into Warhammer but I mentioned Naps to them and they seem dead keen. Massive pressure on me now to keep these guys interested and inject some young blood into an old crowd. Any suggestions on how I might do that? |
KeepYourPowderDry | 08 Aug 2022 10:50 p.m. PST |
If you already have the figures a copy of Warhammer Historical Waterloo might be the gateway drug to get them hooked. Out of print but copies are available for the price of a modern rulebook (they just to fetch over £100.00 GBP, now a much more modest £30.00 GBP). Or maybe Sharpe Practice if you haven't got large armies already painted up Warlord Epic might fit the brief too |
Yellow Admiral | 08 Aug 2022 10:54 p.m. PST |
Nice figures, nice terrain, rules that are easy to explain and understand, and a game in which a lot of things happen. Basically you want them to have fun a see so much eye candy that they get hooked. |
Rosenberg | 08 Aug 2022 11:31 p.m. PST |
Small Armies from the stable of DBA set? Then if they ready go get hooked Age of Empire so they could also play ACW with Fire & Fury. I play Empire myself but that's for the committed and there are very few of us about. |
AussieAndy | 08 Aug 2022 11:52 p.m. PST |
I think that Rosenberg means Age of Eagles. Streamline the rules as much as you can for the first few games. Pick a scenario where you can have everyone rolling dice and making decisions from the start. Your role is to be an umpire and facilitator, rather than a player. Don't assume that the players know much about the mechanics of Napoleonic warfare. So, pretty much the advice that I would give whether your new players are old or young. |
pfmodel | 09 Aug 2022 1:33 a.m. PST |
Basically you want them to have fun a see so much eye candy that they get hooked. These are wise words. You have two areas to consider, the first is the figures and the 2nd is the rules. I suspect if they are into warhammer you may be looking at 25mm, a good option may be airfix figures, or low cost plastic figures. The other option is to go for the mass effect and use 15mm, but that can be a higher cost option which may involve a lot more painting effort. The important point is bling; you need to max out the bling to keep them keen. Make sure you make the playing area look good as well. The next is rules and in this case it depends if they are learning the rules themselves, or someone is teaching them the rules. If they are learning the rules themselves you may need to ensure the rules have bling in them as well. If someone is teaching them then I would advise the simplest possible rules you can find. While I am not a fan of the rules, Absolute emperor may be a good option. One good free option may be Revolution v4 by Andrew Stevenson and Paul Norell. The author allowed me to post the rules on one of my IO:group sites and you can download them from groups.io/g/Kriegsspiel – go to files > Musket and Pike. I have not tried them myself, but they look simple, free and the rules have nice pictures in it, which adds to the bling. Another option is Vom Kriege v2.3, which is also free and available on the internet. This video lists some rules; youtu.be/5U--NhX9Vxw There are other videos which cover different scales, as its also possible you should initially consider a skirmish set of rules, as with skirmish there are few figures involved. |
Erzherzog Johann | 09 Aug 2022 2:12 a.m. PST |
Without having talked to them to glean any ideas they may already have, I'd suggest you steer clear of rules that abstract too much in the interests of higher level games, even if they're great rules. I suspect they'll want to get a sense of how the different troop types interacted, (column, square, line, skirmish order) and see that on the table. Good luck, John |
45thdiv | 09 Aug 2022 2:27 a.m. PST |
Since they know warhammer, they will be use to a roster. Black powder would be a nice transition. The warlord epic Napoleonic figures are nice and easy to paint up. If you already own figures that you will play with, then I still think Black Powder is a good transition into Napoleonic gaming. |
gbowen | 09 Aug 2022 2:46 a.m. PST |
Silver Bayonet is easy, needs few figures and you can use some Warhammer stuff. A little more historical is Muskets and Tomahawks but you also need the Napoleonic supplement. |
robert piepenbrink | 09 Aug 2022 3:33 a.m. PST |
Epic is a possibility. Also something to be said for 28mm figures individually based, but enough of them for Napoleonic formations. Charge! anyone? |
pfmodel | 09 Aug 2022 3:58 a.m. PST |
Coming to think of it, if they know warhammer then perhaps warhammer napoloenics may be the best bet, that way you can bypass the whole rules aspect and just focus on the bling. link |
Mr Elmo | 09 Aug 2022 4:17 a.m. PST |
One Page Rules come to mind. They game is "like Warhammer" their forums have ACW which could convert OR I believe Patrons have access to the points calculator. |
StillSenneffe | 09 Aug 2022 5:50 a.m. PST |
If one went for Sharpe Practise and 28mm figs that would still have some characteristics familiar to Warhammer players- gateway-drug style. Just try not to wince too much when your hear 'Prussian Faction' or 'Westphalian faction', etc….. The diametrical opposite 'go big to make it a distinctive experience' might also work. If you don't have big armies- those new Peter Dennis designed 2D acrylic blocks look great- can't remember the manufacturer. Agree with the poster above on Black Powder for the rules, or the new Epic Battles variant with the strip based plastic 12mm figs. I certainly wouldn't worry about rules simplicity/complexity too much. Warhammer folks love big glossy books full of background context, special factors and characteristics etc. They can pore over them between games- so Black Powder would be a treat in that respect. It also seems, at least to me, that younger gamers of all kinds seem to prefer the 'canonical' type of carefully written and heavily playtested rules, where things are played as per book and there's less appetite for homebrew variation and amendment. That could be a false impression of course. For something else different but with a great period feel- go for Sam Mustapha's Blucher with the plan-view card armies. Bit costly up front but that's your whole system sorted and you can replace with figs if they get really keen. |
cavcrazy | 09 Aug 2022 7:10 a.m. PST |
At the local toy soldier show I set up a game to draw in younger players. Keep it simple, make it so they are battling quickly, and let them have their fun. A game they can jump right into and play works best. Keep it simple. |
mildbill | 09 Aug 2022 7:27 a.m. PST |
I am a fan of anything by Neil Thomas. |
Imrazor | 09 Aug 2022 9:16 a.m. PST |
I would ask them what scale and army they prefer to play and tell them the most epic stories about those armies. I think as they already play warhammer 28mm black powder may be a good idea. The challenge is to keep them motivated for the time they need to paint up enough models to play a decently sized game. At least thats my opinion, im 16 years old and had to paint both french and allies to be able to play a game. Greetings from Germany, i hope i could help! |
Doug MSC | 09 Aug 2022 10:21 a.m. PST |
keep the rules simple to begin with. Not lots of charts, morals, nationality changes, etc. Once they get their first taste then you can gradually introduce more rules at the next game, slowly and explain to them why this or that rule is added so they begin to understand the period. |
cj1776 | 09 Aug 2022 2:27 p.m. PST |
Another vote for Black Powder. |
Erzherzog Johann | 09 Aug 2022 4:37 p.m. PST |
It seems to me the best starting point is to find out what they hope to get from playing this new period. My observation (never having played) is that Warhammer players love well painted miniatures, and, er,'beautiful' terrain. So it's my suspicion (no disrespect intended to others here because I know no more than the rest of us, barring ScottyOZ, who's actually met at least one of them), that games like Blucher, unit cards rather than miniatures, colour coded troop blocks etc, may be off-putting unless they indicate that they'd be interested in doing this, at least as an interim measure. Some people are fine with this – there's a guy who posts links to his blog on the Ancients boards, where his games are all based on cards, but if I was coming from a "cool miniatures' game, I'm not sure how keen I'd be. I've never played any skirmish games and don't want to get into specific rules recommendations, but I think the idea of starting at skirmish level could be a good one. The other thing is, maybe ScottyOZ already has armies galore :~) Cheers, John |
ScottyOZ | 09 Aug 2022 6:58 p.m. PST |
Some interesting replies, thanks heaps for your input all. As it turns out I am somewhat pleasantly surprised by the initial response of the lads in my area. We have decided on Warlord's Epic Battles and so far everyone is pretty enthused to get a fac…. er Army going. I've had a number of comments from them along the lines of "Oh I wanted to do Austrians but Warlord don't do them" so I've steered them to other suppliers. So right now a fair few new players are beavering away building their lines of infantry and furrowing brows over Fusilier units, debating Dragoons v Hussars and trying to determine when the cuirass was no longer worn. I envisage our first games in a few weeks so if you like I can update you all then. |
Erzherzog Johann | 09 Aug 2022 9:22 p.m. PST |
This sounds great! Good to see someone wants the Austrian fac…. er army :~D I for one would love an update. |
Rosenberg | 09 Aug 2022 10:53 p.m. PST |
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ScottyOZ | 10 Aug 2022 1:02 a.m. PST |
Erzherzog, I had considered Austrians myself, I love their colours but I settled on Prussians |
Robert le Diable | 10 Aug 2022 1:17 a.m. PST |
Most interesting thread, to which I can't add anything re. rules or figures etc. The contribution from Imrazor, first sentence in particular, confirms that one initial thought I had on stimulating and maintaining interest would, however, be worthwhile. Show them some short sequences from films/movies which are in various ways effective (even if you might sometimes have to tell/remind them that, for instance, cavalry didn't always move at a gallop with troopers brandishing their heavy sabres). I was particularly impressed to notice in Bondarchuk's "War and Peace", the sequence before Borodino where the Icon is paraded before the Russian Army, a squadron of Dragoons passing across the mid-ground in what looked like column of divisions. Need not confine these short examples to the Napoleonic period, since I think the sequence in the three-part "Gettysburg", before Pickett's Charge, which details the intended manoeuvre and formations, might likewise be valuable. And by all means tell them the exploits not only of Regiments and Armies, but also of the Personalities (especially if you've got some good castings, painted). Good Luck with the venture. ""*[//])
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79thPA | 10 Aug 2022 7:06 a.m. PST |
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Yellow Admiral | 10 Aug 2022 9:58 a.m. PST |
Erzherzog, I had considered Austrians myself, I love their colours but I settled on Prussians In a collaborative project I'd consider Austrians too, just for the easy paint job. |
Lazyworker | 10 Aug 2022 12:14 p.m. PST |
If they're into 40K figures, I would think bridging them over to a skirmish ruleset would be a good way to go. I don't have a rules recommendation for that. I do recommend that you suggest to them to watch the Sharp Rifles BBC series (or read the Bernard Cornwall books). They're very entertaining and could spark some inspiration. Also a big plug for Little Wars TV on YouTube! Check them out if you haven't already. As far as going big battle, you'll have to see what scale of figures as well as scope of game the group seems interested in overall. There is so much choice available these days, especially when 3D printers are so viable now, that it all boils down to preference. The only practical suggest I have for you is when painting, of whatever scale/scope is chosen, keep things to manageable bite sized chunks. I've seen too many gamers get intimated when looking at a fully assembled army in bare metal/plastic. Speaking for myself, I'm buried with too many affordable 28mm plastic historical box sets. I hope your group likes to paint. Above all else, remember to have fun! We're talking about gaming! Good luck. |
Frank the Arkie | 11 Aug 2022 8:02 p.m. PST |
My 8 year old grandson and I have played a handful of games with Neil Thomas's One Hour Wargames and some 1/72d Napoleonic figures based accordingly. He loves to play – he's won a couple of games – and these are easy rules that get him right into the action. |