"Talking about China ..." Topic

From Military.com Xi & the POTUS had a 2 plus hour talk … link

Just heard on the news Xi/PRC/CCP just basically threated to possibly intercept the Speaker of the House's aircraft if it heads for Taiwan. That is a Red Line the US should not cross. Wow ! Talk about red meat!

Probably just saber rattling for local consumption and for Taiwan to hear as well. Probably testing the waters/probing as well the US top leaderships' reactions. They see the US leadership as weak, feckless, etc. Are they poking the "sleeping giant" ? Maybe not currently …?

There is already one US Carrier Grp in the area. Rumor/thought is we should/may send another one ?

Will Xi actually shoot down the US aircraft with US leadership on board if they head for Taiwan ?

No surprise Putin supports what Xi just said.

If we don't go to Taiwan will that mean, we let Xi tell us what to do ?

WWIII on the horizon … ? That may be a bit of overreacting at this time ?

But again, the Chinese just threated a US aircraft with US leadership for going to Taiwan.

We live in interesting times … and possibly deadly ?

Xi & Putin are predators … they sense weakness and confusion. And will take advantage of it, if need be …

If that US aircraft lands on Taiwan … it will make Xi look weak. Especially when he may run soon to be "reelected" by the CCP.

Some predators. So far Putin has greatly strengthened NATO and wrecked his economy while destroying half of his military hardware and all of his military's reputation – all to achieve ground gains that would embarrass a WWI general. And Xi is just sabre-rattling as his economy tanks – he now knows that so long as the Taiwanese resist he has no chance of successful conquest – and the Taiwanese know it too.

Everyone in China will understand that the elderly are to be honored.
So to avoid an accident of the old lady in Taiwanese airspace due to misunderstandings caused by young boisterous and inexperienced hotheads, it may be advisable to arrive with an aircraft carrier group.

I still don't known why she's going.

But I agree with Eumenlus. The two dictators are weaker than they have been in years. They have no apparent plan for getting out of the mess Putin made. China is caught between having a pariah partner weaker than they are and trying to get back on track in a weakened global economy. Which is worse than ours right now. Now the Chinese housing market is about to collapse.

There is a lot of hot air from both of them. They are not our equals at any level except in nukes right now. Chinas big army is an unknown at best. We can never underestimate them, but we should also be realistic. Our real weakness comes from our internal division and our next election will make no more difference than Xi's. Russia has exploited this at every turn, but Ukraine was their fatal error.
Xi wants to survive all this. No way he sees Russia the winner, US the loser.But if we continue attacking each other internally here, it's gonna give him the edge down the road. If he makes it himself. But we are a generation away from domestic peace.
I would be talking to Xi right now about him shutting up about Pelosi, maybe in return for opening some preliminary talks on economics, the tariffs, etc. , may draw him away from Putin and reduce tension. We don't know what is happening behind the scenes diplomatically. So far Biden has maintained the Trump policies on China.

There is a large Chinatown in San Francisco in Nancy Pelosi's district. They give money to local politicians at election time which is coming up for Nancy Pelosi.
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And there is this oldie but goodie:
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So visit Taiwan to let the folks back home you care about what they care about.

Perhaps Trump should offer to fly her in one of his private TRUMP logo aircraft? That would certainly confuse everyone.
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Mike Bunkermeister Creek

I think at this point, it doesn't matter why Pelosi is going; the fact that Xi made a threat means she MUST go now. And ideally with an F-18 escort…

I teach English as a second language as a side gig. I talk to a LOT of students from China. They are always enthusiastic learners. English is part of the required curricular in China.

A couple days ago I tutored a kid from Taiwan, maybe 5 years old, probably brilliant. He spoke English like a native speaker. There was nothing I could really teach him, other than to let him practice talking in English.

I would hate to see both of these people come to blows over anything. I never talk about politics in my lessons, other than the basic "peace in the world is best for everyone" type stuff.

Damon.

+1 Tortorella

Nancy P. shot down. That would be just horrible.

Some predators. So far Putin has greatly strengthened NATO and wrecked his economy while destroying half of his military hardware and all of his military's reputation – all to achieve ground gains that would embarrass a WWI general.

Yes, NATO is back, that's to Putin's credit. But regardless of his nation's economy he and his cronies are probably doing well. His military, yes, they've turned out to be incompetent, and lost much of their men & hardware. However, a wounded animal can but vicious. And this he has nukes

And Xi is just sabre-rattling as his economy tanks – he now knows that so long as the Taiwanese resist he has no chance of successful conquest – and the Taiwanese know it too.

Yes, Xi is just saber rattling, and he has an "election" coming up. So he has to at least look like a strongman. But he won't look that tough if Pelosi, the 3d in the Chain of Command of the USA, lands in Taiwan.

The two dictators are weaker than they have been in years. They have no apparent plan for getting out of the mess Putin made. China is caught between having a pariah partner weaker than they are and trying to get back on track in a weakened global economy.

True but don't underestimate your enemy … They still are the only other two "Superpowers" …

Perhaps Trump should offer to fly her in one of his private TRUMP logo aircraft? That would certainly confuse everyone.

Now That is a cunning plan !!!

I think at this point, it doesn't matter why Pelosi is going; the fact that Xi made a threat means she MUST go now.

Yes as otherwise it looks like Xi has deterred or scared us off, etc.

"peace in the world is best for everyone"

Yes it is but someone did not let Xi or even Putin know. Those PRC kids are not in charge … Xi/CCP is. Soon the Chinese children will probably be learning "good" proper PRC/CCP dogma & doctrine. If they have not already. The Taiwanese kid … duck & cover drills.

The world is still a very dark place …

Always has been, Legion 4. For one reason or another.

Yes, and we need to get our act together, "lean forward in the foxhole" and get our military prepped and ready. Don't waste time on woke etc. type training. Get our forces combat ready. Not pushing that we should go to war … but "Peace thru strength" … That is all Xi, Putin, Iran, Un, terrorists, etc., understand. Your enemies need to fear & respect your leadership, military, etc. IMO they don't … But I'm biased …

If you want peace, prepare for war. True then, true now, true always.

"Prepare for Peace … but prepare for war." IIRC an ancient Roman senator said that ?

Errata: "Pray for peace … but prepare for war." … 😖

*Sigh* China has spent decades and billions of $$ influencing a small percentage of the population of the US, primarily our so-called "leadership" and some of our education and entertainment institutions…but that's not all there is. I hope they don't mistake this influence for any kind of deep control over the US, because so far they've been doing their influencing during Good Times. If the US hits Hard Times the whole equation will change, and China becomes perceived as a real threat by the majority -- their Good Times friends and influence they have purchased will go by the wayside relatively quickly.

But this kind of misunderstanding is how we get a conflict…

I doubt they'll shoot it down, but another "accidental" collision, or as they call them in the Soviet Union/Russia, a Taran Attack could occur, since that happened already with one of our recon birds during the Bush years.

Can we get Kamala to join her on the plane?

I won't give the list of everyone I'd like on that plane !🛫🤩😎

However, what I said on another thread here :

And No the PRC/CCP is not going to start a war over a US politician of high station or otherwise visiting Taiwan. Xi is up for "reelection" soon. It's more about saber rattling for local consumption that a real "threat".

However, many from that region do not like to lose face. So, if she lands ? Xi/PRC/CCP must have a plan ?

But again, the PRC/CCP sees the top US leadership as weak, feckless, confused, etc. Xi is playing GO, the US is playing Checkers.

It is about losing face – and maybe fear. The noise from the Chinese you hear just might be a little nervous bluster. IMO, the reality is that the Chinese military is not on the same level as the US. They have more influence as a force in being. They see what the Russians did to themselves. This is not a good time for them in any case. I am not saying don't worry about them, but I would not bet on them.

The more nervous you are, the louder you get.

IMO, the reality is that the Chinese military is not on the same level as the US.

Very much so … they have numbers, but we won't be fighting them on ground anyway… yet … 🤞

But we can't underestimate them …

But again, the PRC/CCP sees the top US leadership as weak, feckless, confused, etc. Xi is playing GO, the US is playing Checkers.

Is this political theatre? We know that the Biden Admin has been dropping or relaxing restrictions on Chinese trade, tech and land/real estate investments in the US -- but all that could reverse if the Democrats lose power. So perhaps Xi's saber rattling is theater designed to help Pelosi and Biden look tough and competent (combined with whacking an AQ leader the same week), give 'em a leg up in US Politics, and then the game can continue. A very Sun Tzu sort of move.

Nov elections for Congress are coming up. So, they have to make their "associates" look good. It's all about the votes …

A very Sun Tzu sort of move.

Doubt either US gov't officials mentioned here ever read Sun Tzu … But you can bet XI & the CCP did.

That seems like a stretch, SB, but certainly possible. What trade restrictions are you referring to? It looks like Biden left T's China policies in place to me.

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Tortorella, don't let truth get in the way of propaganda.

What trade restrictions are you referring to? It looks like Biden left T's China policies in place to me.

Biden has:
*Dropped 16 Chinese companies from a trade ban list, companies with ties to the CCP, PLA and one of which engaged in the Uighur genocide.

*Invoked the Defense Production Act to drop bans on Chinese Communist Party-connected energy company, banks and solar panel manufacturer ownership and investment in American energy companies, and dropped tariffs on Chinese solar panels.

*The Justice Department has abandoned the Trump era "China Initiative" which was a special task force on Chinese industrial espionage and influence campaigns – which also included dropping restrictions on Chinese-owned TikTok and WeChat (and the servers and systems they use).

*Revoked bans on Chinese Communist Party-funded Confucius Institutes in American universities and junior colleges

*Relaxed bans on Chinese Communist Party & Peoples Liberation Army connected companies being able to access capital on Wall Street.

*Allowing access to the Fulbright scholarship program to Chinese students again

*Beginning talks to reopen the Houston Consulate, which had been closed over espionage allegations

*Dropped restrictions on Chinese 5G manufacturer Huawei, which had been banned by the Trump admin after it was discovered that Huawei equipment and devices (including phones) had built-in backdoors allowing access to data and device controls.

Or the other way around da. I asked because the tariffs are still in place.

SB, I just looked at the first one. Biden did drop some companies – but he added others and his list is bigger than Trunp's and is targeted differently.

Biden added 29 comp0anies with ties to the Chinese military that were not on the old list.

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The solar panel issue is just one example of how the US economy has been hurt by tariffs. Here is the take from Forbes.

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And one more. The "China Initiative" on espionage was dropped in part because it was perceived by many Asian Americans as racist.

But mainly it did not work very well, not a lot of cases, few convictions, some acquittals. The DOJ says it is working on a broader approach to the issue. This could mean anything, who knows?

Apparently the CCP's hissy fit also extends to UK MPs.

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OK … just a reminder .. the PRC/CCP wants to be the #1 Superpower on the planet. They want to make the USA #2. They will do whatever it takes short of war/using nukes … so far. We need to be aware of this and should remember this when it comes to anything to do with the PRC/CCP.

The US had developed strong economic ties with China, that needs to change. The USA needs to get any businesses, etc. out there. And go somewhere else.

Be very circumspect when dealing with the CCP … Especially with all the Chinese going to our universities, etc., etc. The Universities like the $. USD But the CCP steals too much tech, etc. from the US. Maybe some of those from the PRC needs to be sent home …

We are back in the Cold War with both the PRC & Russia …

Agree Legion. Right now is one chapter in a long story.

One important thing to remember is that China's "wolf warrior" diplomacy is primarily for domestic consumption,

The solar panel issue is just one example of how the US economy has been hurt by tariffs.

That article is really just showing the pain of economic decoupling from China, due to too much reliance, and has a bunch of libertarians complaining about how the market is hurt by it all.
At some point, Americans will have to choose which is the greater good, the Market (tm), or the interests of the country.

Greg, I tend to go with Forbes because it seems like it's in the middle and it has a long track record, world wide circulation. But I don't know much about libertarians. I read in a number of places that the massive tariff bailout for farmers during the period was larger than Obama's bailout for the auto industry, but that was the Great Recession.

I agree about the greater good, but it's the oligarchy that needs to choose.

Some interesting commentary from Thailand: link

one chapter in a long story.

Very long …

One important thing to remember is that China's "wolf warrior" diplomacy is primarily for domestic consumption,

Yes as is much that Putin says. They both lie you know …

Ok so she makes a trip, to no real purpose that anyone can really identify.

Now the Chinese stop "talking" about the one thing, that according to the current administration and their backers, is the world's greatest danger. So again, what did this accomplish?

Subject: China halts U.S. climate-change talks after Pelosi's Taiwan visit — 5 things to know – MarketWatch


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Watch the graph in this BBC article.

Again what good does it do for the US to throw trillions of taxpayers dollars into climate change, when 4 of the 5 top Polluters in the world are doing nothing and instead are adding more and more pollution into the Atmosphere yearly?

Subject: Why China's climate policy matters to us all – BBC News


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Well Xi hit the US Top leaders below the belt, by saying "BTW, Frakk Climate Change". Not that they had any intention to follow the proposals anyway.

Yes Legion, but we will still blow our billions. If Russia, India, China, etc. do nothing, what Is accomplished? I guess those who spend it will feel better. And In the long run, feelings and intentions are all that really matter. 🙂

India, much of Africa, the Middle East are the worst. Start there in the meantime. You may not believe in all this, but most Americans do. I am thinking about the grandkids. Looks like Buffalo is where they will go for winter vacation at this rate. China is not the worst, but has a long ways to go. Same for Russia.

And of course, we have our own special way of making a less than functional bureaucracy out of this to gum up the works.

Tort according to that BBC graph, China is the worst. (Watch as it grows year by year). They tried to say in the article that China is trying to do green things, but the graph in their article and pictures I have seen of the air in their major cities tells me another story.

Tort I won't dispute that maybe in the East most buy into "man made" global warming, but most I talk with in the Mid West and South don't believe it is man made. Most of them believe it is just part of the naturally occurring cycles of the earth. I guess we will find out eventually.

Yes, I see that. I have a different graph but it's kind of a moot point in terms of who is the worst of a bad bunch.

In any case, there are a lot of climate polls. And then there is the weather….

Yes the progressive socialist Go Green, etc., types live in another world. 🦄🌈🎈🍭 They are a vocal biased uninformed minority. The PRC/CCP never really supported the climate change dogma, nor the Russians and some others. So the Go Green libs are destroying our nation for a "dream" … a dream that is unobtainable at this time.

I think there is a certain immaturity at work in the Go Green movement. They are much younger than the Head in the Sand movement. They have no patience. The reality is that the changes are a long term project. An incremental shift to green and a balanced array of complimentary power sources ,including oil, is the middle road and will get the job done.

If only the middle would rise up! The Pragmatics! But we never do, it's part of being in the middle…too busy working to do politics.

I never thought the Greens would get anything through the Congress. Green is already a market force, the private sector is making strides. Congress is, er…not very operational.

Tort correct. Move slowly and realize you need to have fossil while working on a working green alternative. But yes, we are dealing with the we want it NOW generation.

And, as we have said, you don't want all your eggs in one basket, so multiple sources of power, including nuclear, gives a protection from disruption.

Attention spans are shorter. Cell phone madness.

+1 Tort & 35th …

Again the tail is wagging the dog … The adults are out of the room and the Green kids are running the show. Or trying to. Too much $ is going to be wasted while that $ could be spent on so many other things … Important things. The list is long.

We can always count on money being wasted…

That is the standard …

Ok so she makes a trip, to no real purpose that anyone can really identify.

The cynic in me says it's related the semiconductor spending bill's effect on her husband's investments…

Oh, solar phycists are starting to talk about a new Grand Solar Minimum Cycle that could reduce global temps at least as much as the cold Maunder Minimum. So, yeah,things do change.