| doc mcb | 24 Jul 2022 10:56 a.m. PST |
We played the scenario from the F&F forum. Result was a Confederate win in a hard-fought battle. Both players (myself and my brother Phil) were satisfied with our play, using sound tactics. The strength and weakness of F&F was evident: die rolls are decisive barring mistakes. In this case the Union had three of the regiments defending Devil's Den run out of ammo early on. And there were a handful of big charges that were decisive due to a high roll versus a low roll (it is the differential between d10s, for those unfamiliar with the rules). Battle could easily have gone the other way. It was great fun. |
35thOVI  | 24 Jul 2022 12:05 p.m. PST |
Doc do you think the out of ammo rule in F&F is a little excessive? |
 The Nigerian Lead Minister | 24 Jul 2022 12:34 p.m. PST |
I do. It's basically the reason I stopped playing F&F a while back. |
| 79thPA | 24 Jul 2022 1:40 p.m. PST |
You can always do away with the rule or modify it to suit your needs. |
| doc mcb | 24 Jul 2022 4:07 p.m. PST |
Out of ammo units still shoot half strength. and typically there are supply wagons available. But in this scenario and others like it, it can be a crucial blow to lose half the effect of a big unit early on. |
| pzivh43 | 24 Jul 2022 4:17 p.m. PST |
You take the good with the bad. No Low on Ammo occurs unless you roll a natural 10 on firing, which is usually bad for your opponent. One thing I've done is extend the no LOA roll for several turns to make sure it doesn't happen in the first hour or so of battle. |
| doc mcb | 25 Jul 2022 6:28 a.m. PST |
Yeah, we did that with a house rule: a unit cannot go out of ammo on its first fire of the game. They carried 40 rounds and a turn is 15 minutes. |
| 35thOVI | 25 Jul 2022 8:06 a.m. PST |
Gentlemen if we are dealing in 15 minute turns, I would say two turns before you could be out of ammo. The stories have it that a good soldier should be able to fire 3 rounds a minute. Do your own math🙂 But that is under perfect conditions. The more you fire, the more fouled your weapon becomes. It gets progressively Harder to seat Subsequent bullets. Add to that, you are under fire, men dropping around you, smoke, noise, nerves. Men had a tendency to pack some extra rounds in haversacks, etc. if they thought they were going into combat. Also, with men dropping, extra cartridges were available. People talk about cleaning rounds, Technically that's not 100% true. Watch the video, I think it is pretty informative. So I would say check if in combat 2 turns straight. If 15 per turn. Also this video only covers Union. There is one out for Confederates I believe. Subject: US Civil War – Union Williams "Cleaner" Bullets – YouTube
YouTube link |
| raylev3 | 25 Jul 2022 2:47 p.m. PST |
Think ahead…. make sure you have supply wagons properly placed. Also, make sure you have reserves that can move up and cover a unit that is low on ammo so it can fall back and resupply. This rule makes you account for logistics in some way. Most wargamers, and some national armies, don't like to consider logistics. But this is a simple rule that makes you think ahead. |
| pzivh43 | 25 Jul 2022 5:08 p.m. PST |
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| 35thOVI | 25 Jul 2022 6:02 p.m. PST |
My only issue is it is not accurate to the situation. I've explained why I believe you have to be in 2 turns of continuous combat to have a real chance of ammo depletion, if we are assuming 15 minutes per turn. His house rule does cover that at least for the first combat turn. Although if not firing Continuously for two consecutive turns, one would assume replenishment if supply is close enough. So you fire on turn one, but not on two, then fire again on three, if supply close enough, I would assume replenishment and the unit would have to go another 2 consecutive to have ammo depletion. A marker of some sort could track that. I know RF&F already uses a lot of markers anyway. Obviously just my objection, others may like it as is. |
| Stew art | 26 Jul 2022 1:41 p.m. PST |
I'm 99% sure that units NOT going Low on Ammo when they roll a 10 on their first fire of the game is an actual rule in RFF. sometimes a regiment will hold it;s fire as to not risk it (for instance if you a -3 or -4 to the roll you're gonna need a 10 to do any hurt anyway). conversely, once regs go Low on ammo they just blaze away since it can't happen twice. best mod I've come across for the rule: when a Low on Ammo result is rolled, (10 on shooting when not first time firing) roll a second D10, 1-5 low on ammo, 6-10 ammo is still good. it takes some of the sting off… -Stew |
| Texan Phil McBride | 29 Jul 2022 7:25 p.m. PST |
Good discussion. I like Stew's comment about a second roll to 'take the sting off' of rolling an out-of-ammo 10. I've done solo RFF games where danged near every infantry unit went low on ammo. Doesn't seem like that should happen, but it does and leads to lots of charging with cold steel. |
 KimRYoung | 08 Aug 2022 10:53 a.m. PST |
Yeah, we did that with a house rule: a unit cannot go out of ammo on its first fire of the game. They carried 40 rounds and a turn is 15 minutes. Doc, that is actually in the rules…page 55. Kim |
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