"Artillery & The War in Ukraine" Topic

'Outgunned' – Artillery & The War in Ukraine – Developments, lessons, & logistics by Perun, July 11, 2022.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Western artillery is now having an impact on the war. Ukrainian forces have been shelling ammunition depots, Russian command centers, artillery units, etc., disrupting Russian forces. The Russian army tends to put ammunition in large amounts in supply depots.

A couple of articles on this
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link

More FA for the Ukraine … Putin can't be allowed to "win" …

I read recently that Ukraine was firing at Russian ammo depots because the Russians have a lot more artillery than Ukraine. So Ukraine says it is better to starve the Russian guns for ammo than to try counter-battery fire and hit the guns directly.

Yes, Ukraine needs hundreds even thousands of systems, not just three from Norway and two from UK and 12 from the US if they are to win. Otherwise we will have another forever war like Vietnam or Afghanistan.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

We've committed to 12 pieces of artillery now?

Last I read it was four, so the vector is improving, albeit slowly.

Department of Defense Announcement that includes "four additional High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems which will complement the eight already in place".

What would be the "new type [of] 155 mm artillery ammunition" announced?

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

What would be the "new type [of] 155 mm artillery ammunition" announced?

I thought I had seen them listed as Excalibur rounds, but now that I am checking it just says a new GPS guided round similar to Excalibur.

this article says that Excalibur rounds can cost over $200 USDk each. It seems that the M31 missiles for HIMARS would be a better value at $168 USDk as given in this article

Edit: OK.. wikipedia says by 2016 Excalibur shell price was down to $68 USDk.. so much cheaper than M31 rockets.

I expect Ukraine forces won't be firing off Excalibur rounds (or the new type that are similar to Excalibur rounds) as unguided artillery shells as mentioned that the Russians are doing with their Krasnopol rounds.

Note: much about the US weapons, etc., in the media is unclassified … What really is going on we probably may never know. At least as the conflict continues.

Unless you may want to intimidate/deter, etc., your enemy. You will not show all your cards. Paraphrasing Sun Tzu …, "All warfare is deception." …

mil.in.ua (above): "To be used with M777A2 howitzers M982 Excalibur require installation of EPIAFS (Enhanced Portable Inductive Artillery Fuze Setter) modules. Initially, these blocks were not installed on howitzers supplied to Ukraine (according to photos and videos demonstrated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine)."
As the Canadians sent some Excalibur, were the Canadian M777 so equipped?

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

As the Russians seem to be short of guided missiles, they are using the [poor] capability of S-300 in the surface-to-surface role. Accuracy is not to be expected.

Mykolayiv

On the morning of July 14, Mykolaiv was subjected to massive rocket fire. According to preliminary information, 9 missiles from the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system were fired at the regional centre. Currently, it is known about damage to two educational institutions, a transport infrastructure object and a hotel. One person was injured. First [report], no casualties. Detailed information is being clarified.

UkraineNow, July 14.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

For the use of Excalibur shells without the EPIAFS of the M777A2, there is also the possibility of external systems.

PEFCS (Portable Excalibur Fire Control System) is an portable version that was developed and used before the integrated systems were ready.

From March, 2011

from twitter

"Ukrainian troops with a M777A2 at the Grafenwhöhr Training Area in Bavaria. This one has a full digitization set including GPS & PIK meaning it can fully employ all the advantages of the A2 upgrade, such as GPS guided projectiles.
The appearance of these howitzers coincides with recent US statements about the transfer to Ukraine of 1000 "greater precision projectiles" for 155mm artillery, which we believe will highly likely be the M982 Excalibur.
We will continue to monitor the possible appearance of the complete M777A2 in Ukraine."
Ukraine Weapons Tracker, July 14, 2022.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Separatists in east Ukraine report massive shelling with US weapons

link

Armand

"Russia has five times as much artillery, but Ukraine now has MLRS capable of hitting the rear. How NATO Heavy Weapons Can Change the Course of War.
Vladimir Datsenko, forbes-ua, 11 July 22.

Also includes some useful artillery info tables.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Thanks!

Armand

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Before and after images

"A Russian 203mm 2S7M Malka self-propelled heavy artillery gun was destroyed by Ukrainian counter-battery fire in the East.
This is the first documented loss of the 2S7M, an updated version of the 2S7 Pion, by Russian forces."
Ukraine Weapons Tracker, July 16, 2022.

From the large number of shell casings and ammo boxes seen the Malka was there for some time. Even though it is self-propelled it was not doing shoot-and-scoot. Perhaps they thought they were out of range?

Russia had 60 203mm 2S7M Malka in service and 260 2S7 Pion in store.
The Military Balance 2021

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

video of a "fairly rare Russian 9P157-2 Khrizantema-S fires a 9M123 ATGM [AT-15 Springer] at a Ukrainian position in the east."
OSINTtechnical, Jul 15, 2022.

9P157-2 "Khrizantema-S" is a variant of the BMP-3.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

The Russian's weapons' inventory is full of many vehicles, weapons, etc. types. Of a number of eras. Must be a real log nightmare. But seems their entire log system is marginal at best.

Destroyed Polish-donated Ukrainian AHS Krab 155mm howitzer. According to reports the crew survived. OSINTtechnical, July 18, 2022.
Reported to have hit a mine.

The tweet below it is of a video of the 6th destroyed M777.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

No real surprise that some of the weapons sent to the Ukraine get KO'd or captured. That happens in war.

E.g. Vietnam, An Loc, 1972. The NVA used 17 M41 Tanks captured from the ARVN. Then added those to the NVA forces to attack that location. I'm sure the NVA KO'd more M41s during the progress of the war.

Plunder it for spare parts.

A thread about Russia using S-300 surface-to-air missiles against ground targets, by ChrisO, July 18.

I don't think Russia using these missiles is a sign of desperation. It has a large stock of them, probably tens of thousands, and it's using all the assets at its disposal to win its war in Ukraine. If it has plentiful expendable missiles, why not use them?

Given its inaccuracy and small warhead, I don't think the S-300 is likely to be very useful as a ground attack weapon. It's more likely being used simply because it's available, and more as a terror weapon than to achieve purely military goals.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Russians Fire At Russians With Artillery – Soldiers Complaining About Poor Training of Artillerists.

2 intercepted phone calls. Inaccurate artillery, and drop shorts probably due to worn barrels.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

…and missing by kilometers…

Yeah, I think we're back to why firing 60K rounds a day may not actually be a good thing!

"NASA FIRMS data from July 15-23 shows consistently fewer fires along the entire frontline in the Donbas, which strongly suggests that HIMARS are having a continued impact on Russian artillery capabilities."

Source: NASA's Fire Information for Resource Management System over Donbas, July 15 – July 23 and Esri, Maxar, Earthstar Geographics, and the GIS User Community]
via understandingwar.org

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video of "West of Izium, Ukrainian forces hit a large Russian 152mm Msta-B artillery position in the forest, along with ammunition storage.
It is unclear precisely how many of the 8+ guns were destroyed, but damage seems severe." Ukraine Weapons. Tracker, 23 July 22

The Russians are more often seen with full batteries deployed together, in this case the guns are spaced very close.

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In contrast:
video of "a Ukrainian truck, which was towing a howitzer, was destroyed by a Russian ZALA Lancet loitering munition." Ukraine Weapons Tracker, 23 July 22.

Operating alone.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

2d Class poorly trained, maintained, lead in accurate Russian FA vs HIMARS, M270s, M777s, etc., with trained motivated crews.

HIMARS, etc. appears to be a game changer … as many predicted.

Time to take your football and go home Vlad … ⚽

we keep talking about artillery ,barin1 is a artillery guy
haven't heard from him in a while ,has he been called up (putin was calling up specialists)if i remember correctly thread here somewhrer about it? or is he just being wise and keeping his head down ?

I believe he is keeping a low profile …

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"A Russian 2S7(M) Pion/Malka 203mm self-propelled howitzer suffered a catastrophic barrel failure – likely due to serious wear."
Ukraine Weapons Tracker, July 25, 2022.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

That is no real surprise based on the Russian predilection and poor log support. E.g. every round fired down an MBT's main gun barrel is recorded. E.g. the 105 on the M60A1/M1IP was good for about 4000 rounds. The barrel gets worn and even weakens. Then the barrel is replaced by Gen Spt Maint., etc.

FWIW-at the NTC doing desert warfare training in '87. An M60A1's 105mm barrel was approaching 4000 rds. On a live fire exercise one of the M60A1's barrel cracked and split. And a 2-3 foot part of the front of the barrel flew off.

Glad I was in a bunker, IIRC.

BTW – 3-4 hours later that barrel was replaced and that M60A1 was rolling again.

Ukraine hits Russian Bridge with HIMARS … link

Claimed first video of the Ukrainian made Vilkha guided MLRS. [aka 'Alder']
𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔇𝔢𝔞𝔡 𝔇𝔦𝔰𝔱𝔯𝔦𝔠𝔱, July 20, 2022.

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Using the existing body of a 9M55 rocket with a range of 70 kilometres and a 250kg warhead as a basis, the upgraded rocket (now known as R624) adds a new solid-fuel engine, GPS-aided inertial guidance and 90 tiny guidance thrusters to drastically reduce the circular error probable (CEP) of the rocket to some 10 metres.

Only in the Vilkha-M system, which uses the newly-produced R624M series of rockets, do the improvements also result in a significant range increase. Sacrificing warhead size for range, the Vilkha-M can attain ranges up to 130km with a 170kg warhead, while a further improved variant known as the Vilkha-M1 can either be fitted with a 170kg warhead that allows it to reach distances up to 154km or with a 236kg warhead for a maximum range of 121km. [2] The latest variant, the Vilkha-M2, is reported to have a range of just over 200km. The additional range contributes to an overall decrease in terminal accuracy however, which likely approaches some 30 metres CEP for the R624M.

Oryx, May 10, 2021.

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Ukrainian military has carried out about 50 precision strikes with Vilkha missile systems, ukrinform, 3/3/22

Since the first days of the war, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have carried out about 50 precision strikes using R624 Vilkha missiles.
"High-precision MLRS Vilkha in action! Since the first days of the war, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have carried out about 50 precision strikes using R624 Vilkha missiles," State Kyiv Design Bureau "Luch" posted on Facebook.

The facts of destruction of dozens of units of armored vehicles, air defense systems, EW means, mobile command posts have been confirmed.

As reported, State Kyiv Design Bureau "Luch" handed over all products prepared for export to the Ukrainian army.

…

I think it was one of the Luch's GMLRS that nailed the Russian Landing ships in Berdyansk & not a Toska-U/ SS-21 Scarab

Trent Telenko, April 15, 2022.

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The Military Balance 2021 does not give a number for 'Alder' systems.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

"Get some !!!!" … 🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

Analysis: Comparison between Russian and Ukrainian Artillery powers on the battlefield

link

Armand

Great chart ! 👍👍

Video of the Antonovsky railway bridge near Kherson after the Ukrainian strikes!
Special Kherson Cat, July 30, 2022.

Approx damaged area is a short deck girder over land on the left bank.
John J Filson

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

"Video of a Ukrainian M109A3 howitzer targeted by a Russian Lancet loitering munition."
Rob Lee, Aug 10, 2022.

The Russian claims it is a PzH 2000.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

"Video reportedly of a Russian Krasnopol artillery strike on a Ukrainian tank in the Pisky area."

Krasnopol rounds are laser guided so should be able to hit a moving target, but, when videos end before the result is seen it probably means it failed to destroy the target.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

"video of Ukrainian artillerymen using a recently British-delivered L119 105mm howitzer."

The howitzers were Australian, purchased by BAE when retired, then purchased by the UK for donation to Ukraine. NZ provided trainers and 40 sights. The USA provided ammunition.

They are wearing Royal Artillery flashes on their arms, and that is Salisbury Plain Training Area (SPTA).
iain

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Video of L119 105mm guns in service with Ukrainian paratroopers.
Rob Lee, Aug 7, 2022

This looks more like Ukraine.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Looks like FA from all sources are getting some pretty good use and being effective by the Ukrainians generally.

towed howitzers fixed locations (dont seem too concerned about russain counter battery radars
or what is the status on russian counterbattery radars?

I think like much else of the Russian military their CB Radars are probably not that be that effective. As their troops are poorly trained and motivated.

If you don't want people to see if you have one missile or six in your HIMARS, you cover the back of the HIMARS' pod.

Video, Thomas C. Theiner, Aug 22, 2022.

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A single missile could be an ATACMS or (far-fetched) a Ukrainian Neptune with extra bits added, see Thomas C. Theiner, Aug 22, 2022.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

link

WOW Legion 4's link £11.00 GBP for a 1/285 scale HIMARS no wounder folk are not going 1/300 its cheaper to go 1/144. We (Maneouvre Group guys) were chatting about the demise of 1/300, it used to be a cheap start. At that price its cheaper to go 1/144. You have to really want 1/300 at that price.

All I do is 6mm … I like the size/scale on the gaming table. I've been doing 6mm too long to change, anyway.

"Per pack: 5"

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

In the US GHQ vehicles are $2.59 USD each in packs of five for $12.95 USD.
1/144 vehicles $4.00 USD or more each.