"Lincoln bust and Gettysburg address removed" Topic

Subject: Cornell library removes Gettysburg Address, Lincoln bust


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Unless it's out for cleaning, looks like a typical Wokism-related complaint, and typical liberal university response. In 2020, BLM idiots tore down our statue of Hans Christian Heg (abolitionist and Union Colonel of the 15th Wisconsin killed at Chickamauga) here in Madison, and threw the head in a lake. One has to wonder about the intelligence of the Intelligentsia…..

One has to wonder about the intelligence of the Intelligentsia…..

True.

Fortunately, we don't have to worry about the lack of intelligence of the non-intelligentsia.

The president's office and Cornell media affairs has also not responded to repeated emailed requests over the last week from The College Fix, as well as a phone call Monday, regarding the whereabouts of the Gettysburg Address plaque and Lincoln bust, and why they were removed.

OMG they wont return our right wing rag phone call, it's a cover up, they're erasing our history! It couldn't be that they have no idea who we are or why we are calling.

Oh wait, it's a private university so it's no one's business but their own.

I'll never quite understand of the unwholesome fascination with the Ivy League the people who cant get into them have.

"Someone complained and it was removed"…

"Unable to provide more clarification…."

That's a code phrase for "I'm not allowed to say anything else or I'll lose my job…"

"OMG they wont return our right wing rag phone call, it's a cover up, they're erasing our history! It couldn't be that they have no idea who we are or why we are calling."

Ah.. Your political bias is showing again.
So I guess that if it was a left wing rag, then they should be required to answer correct? And most "rags" when calling actually kinda explain "WHY' they are calling and asking questions. So the "we don't know why they are calling" isn't plausible.

Oh wait, it's a private university so it's no one's business but their own.

But the numerous other statues, painting, memorials, markers, museums, and graves that have been removed, vandalized, damaged, torn down, and destroyed AREN'T. Are you okay with that then?

I'll never quite understand of the unwholesome fascination with the Ivy League the people who cant get into them have."

True, but at the same time, it's just indicative of yet another "Someone complained…we don't know who, or what about or why, and it was moved, and we don't know why, and if we do, we can't say."

Au Pas,
one note of minor correction (excuse if you are already aware), even the so-called "private" colleges in the US are recipients of significant taxpayer funds, either through grants, student loans or other sources.

In truth, almost no accredited school of higher education in the United States is free from taxpayer funding.

I believe that to be a problem in its own right….

However,
on the surface it does seem symbolic of the current trend in higher education to bend to the most vocal political minority (often tiny minority), with far left leaning political ideas generally holding sway.

But of course, what does this have to do with toy soldiers anyway???

As to with toy soldiers, nothing

But as someone who did regular reviews of US Federal grant applications, I was always struck that how elite private schools in the US proudly claimed to take "no government funds" when in fact they were the recipients of tens of millions of grant dollars, including overhead charges of up to 60%

Just sayin'

Ah.. Your political bias is showing again.

Is it indeed? What might you think that bias is?

Interesting that you are concerned over this matter. Given your avatar, is your bias pro Lincoln?

So I guess that if it was a left wing rag, then they should be required to answer correct?

Although I dont know what your standard for a left wing rag is, I tend not to worry over sensationalist, populist stories that frighten people who think our culture rests on a few symbols.

It's more frequent that someone posits a right-wing rag as some sort of authority story on here. If someone were to put a bizarre left-wing rag story on here, I'd probably laugh at that too.

Maybe the real story is why cant a lot of people fact check or think through the importance of a story before running out into the street willy-nilly?

Incidentally, the site is a tabloid style, sensationalist blog, not a hard news source. Further, they define themselves as right wing. Thus, right-wing rag is a very apt description.

But the numerous other statues, painting, memorials, markers, museums, and graves that have been removed, vandalized, damaged, torn down, and destroyed AREN'T. Are you okay with that then?

Personally no. But then I dont really like Lincoln's bust and Gettysburg address getting removed (If in fact it is actually permanently removed and not just getting a cleaning). However, I dont always get to run the country the way I like because I'm not a fascist. But you know I'm not because you have figured out my political bias. ;)

True, but at the same time, it's just indicative of yet another "Someone complained…we don't know who, or what about or why, and it was moved, and we don't know why, and if we do, we can't say."

It's a passing fad. Cornell University has no accountability to a website with no accountability. Just because they didn't return their call, doesn't mean it's a Marxist cover up.

Although, it could be…**APDC looks around uneasily**

People, none of this is painting any miniatures. Surely there are other venues in which to fight the culture wars?

It's only a matter of time until one or another gamer defends his/her/their participation in a thread like this as being the result of being work blocked by their 3d printer being mid run.

I'll never quite understand of the unwholesome fascination with the Ivy League the people who cant get into them have.

People, none of this is painting any miniatures. Surely there are other venues in which to fight the culture wars?

I dont paint my own miniatures and thus have a little free time. I dont know what everyone else's excuse is though.

Au Pas,
one note of minor correction (excuse if you are already aware), even the so-called "private" colleges in the US are recipients of significant taxpayer funds, either through grants, student loans or other sources.

In truth, almost no accredited school of higher education in the United States is free from taxpayer funding.

I believe that to be a problem in its own right….

For the time being that's not enough to constitute state action as far as the 1st Amendment is concerned. But with this SCOTUS, who knows what the future holds.

Hopefully it holds the continuance of a constitutional, representative Republic that actually enforces its laws.

"Is it indeed? What might you think that bias is?"

Usually when someone spouts off "Right Wing Rag", or something of that matter, it's pretty easy to see where they are in the socio-politico spectrum.

"Interesting that you are concerned over this matter. Given your avatar, is your bias pro Lincoln?"

You mean the ANV Regimental Colors of 33rd Virginia, (Stonewall Brigade), 2nd Bunting Issue? Sure…It's the colors of the last reenactment group I was in. It's a military standard. If you see it as something else, then you really need to sit down and read some history. Before that, if I were to post pics of previous units I have been in it would be 11th Texas Cavalry, (Dismounted) 71 PA Inf, Co. D 69th New York Infantry, and 6th Ky Cavalry (Dismounted).

Is my bias "Pro Lincoln?"….far from it. The man had numerous faults, and problems, and prejudices.

I really don't care what your politics are. I would be concerned though with a university removing items from display without an explanation. Even if they are being cleaned or something, a simple index card with "The Bust of Lincoln is currently removed for cleaning, etc. We expect it to return (insert approx date)."
I also don't see a reason why the person ( A Cornell Biology professor) would feel a reason to lie about this.

"I dont paint my own miniatures and thus have a little free time."

Perhaps you should give it a try!

It was never about slavery or Confederates. It has always been about the destruction of Western heritage, culture, and history. So the monuments to Black ACW soldiers were destroyed, statues to St. Louis were threatened, statues of Christ were knocked over, statues of Lincoln have been damaged, even Christopher Columbus art has been destroyed.
This is just one more example of our culture and heritage being taken away so the woke crowd can fundamentally transform America.
Historical Miniature Wargaming is about history, and learning from it and understanding it. So yes, when that history seems to be under attack it is a concern.
Typically when a statue or bust or plaque is being cleaned or maintained there is a little sign about "pardon our dust" or "exhibit removed for cleaning and will return shortly."
Exhibits are removed in dead of night when the university is ashamed of their actions in folding to the complaints of a tiny loud group of activists.
If the materials are simply being maintained just answer the phone and stop the rumors, it does not matter who is calling, it's part of that transparency thing.
Mike Bunkermeister Creek

One professor is the only source? Now Cornell needs to get out ahead of this. If it can.

I am weary of all of it. What started as a way to undo some of the wrongs of the Lost Cause narrative looks like an anarchist purge now. Our ACW history was affected by bias for decades. Destroying things is not the way to fix it.

I would include Jan 6 as another attempt to take away our heritage and transform America. Seeing the Confederate battle flag in the Capitol was a difficult moment. History will not forget.

I would include Jan 6 as another attempt to take away our heritage and transform America. Seeing the Confederate battle flag in the Capitol was a difficult moment. History will not forget.

Maybe it was the ANV Regimental Colors of 33rd Virginia, (Stonewall Brigade), 2nd Bunting Issue; a reenactment flag, not to be seen as anything else. Gawd, some people are SOOO judgmental, do some reading! :rollseyes

Usually when someone spouts off "Right Wing Rag", or something of that matter, it's pretty easy to see where they are in the socio-politico spectrum.

I only see them as a rag. They themselves assert they are right wing. Personally, I dont like the way that populists have usurped the concept of conservative. It isnt even fair to call this a right wing rag, more like a populist rag.

It's true that populism and conservatism can intersect a little but if not seeing and hearing things that arent there makes one a liberal, then that is a universe of shifting definitions.

You see a populist rarely thinks and overreacts to any change whatsoever, rather like a furry, superstitious little creature. Meanwhile a conservative thinks and thinks all the time.

Dont think this is a populist rag?

Let's see their Board:

Salena Zito is national political reporter for the Washington Examiner and a columnist for the New York Post. Based in Pittsburgh, she is the author of

The Great Revolt: Inside the Populist Coalition Reshaping American Politics.

Hmm, might be populist? What do you think she'd say?

And this. A SCOTUS against AR15s? That should be illegal…

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Is my bias "Pro Lincoln?"….far from it. The man had numerous faults, and problems, and prejudices.

It's nice to know you are worried about him now.

Perhaps you should give it a try! wink

But then I might not have the time to engage in riveting debate with you.

Please go somewhere else to have these arguments. Can't this site just be about toy soldiers?

"Please go somewhere else to have these arguments. Can't this site just be about toy soldiers?"

Too true, too true.

-----

Now, this caper would be a cool plot point in a pulp scenario. Unbeknownst to everyone, that bust was a major clue to a trove of royal jewels. That copy of the GB address contained a secret message about the trove that the bust helps decode.

Oh, and I know several of the posts above are secret twisted messages between Cthulhu cultists. Give me time, and I'll decode them. Just need to make some successful Sanity checks and….

Please go somewhere else to have these arguments

Is there an argument?

Someone put a link down from a website that makes its living based on stories of persecution of religious conservatives, traditions and life as it was in 1850s America. Someone else pointed out that a bunch of kids who see every statue moved as proof of "1984" isnt necessarily the stuff that sound journalism is made from.

A website, mind you, that is proud that it is amateur, rooted in gossip and unapologetically "right-wing" which, when pointed out, prompted some people to cry bias and unleash the dogs of the 33rd VA. :)

Seems pretty good natured so far.

I don't know why people are so twitchy about this topic. I'm finding it enormously entertaining (I speak as a liberal conservative with strong populist tendencies). Please keep it coming, it's a delight.

DBDD

All one need do is a web search "cornell removes lincoln". Many hits.

link includes a statement from Cornell about the removal of a temporary display.

Thanks Bates. A non issue in other words. Back to my French ironclads.

AuPas I do not have a clue about variations for Confederate flags. In 6mm I am not gonna try much either. But I'd do not want to see any of them during a riot. Just in museums, or with reenactors.

Yes, the ones from local news are recent.

So you can believe what the College Professor said he was told

"He asked the librarians about it, and they had no details to provide, except to say it was removed after some sort of complaint",

and the fact he said it was removed "several weeks ago", (we can assume that is within the last few months of 2022),

Or

you can believe the current statements of Cornell University spokespeople that it was:

"President Lincoln's bust was part of a temporary exhibit on the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. The bust was on display in the Rare and Manuscript Collections from 2013 to 2021," Rebecca Valli, director of media relations at Cornell University, told TND in an email. "

And that they delayed removal until 2022 for some reason, and the others all lied for some reason. Interesting that the stories from the channels came out in the last 3 hours, and the others 2 days ago.

Your choice.

We could pay off all the student loans by taxing the Ivy's $billion endowments. Just saying . . . .

Just the Ivy's doc? That money flows like water all over does it not?

I am not gonna go with a single professor as a source here. He did not seem to do anything but ask the librarians, then go public. Not very good research.

The admin's explanation makes far more sense to me, my choice. But who knows?

This entire tread belongs in the dawghouse!

link includes a statement from Cornell about the removal of a temporary display.

See, it was just a koinkidink. You guys are soo suspicious. It wasnt because of a complaint, it was because the exhibit's rent ran out.

That'll teach people to get their news from a site that goes like this:

A: "Good Morning"

B: "Stop attacking me because Im conservative!"

Now make room for that George Floyd exhibit!

Au pas de Charge,

Removing the bust of Lincoln and the Gettysburg Address. This is why they hate us.

After reading the article APdC linked, the temporary duration of the exhibit that commemorated the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address makes perfect sense. Temporary exhibits are just that. What really doesn't make sense is why a biology professor would take his students to view the exhibit every semester, and have one of them read The Address. Wouldn't that be akin to a history professor taking his students to the library to view an exhibit on wildflowers?

This may be a more rounded version. It now includes both sides. The original story came out over 2 days ago. Cornell did not respond until late yesterday, after the story had made multiple venues.

I tend to believe the professor. I base that on the other statue Removals, defacing and name changes done on College campuses and elsewhere in the last two years, many in response to complaints. The college says they were on temporary display until 2021. But they did not remove them until mid 2022? The professor says those in the library were told that they were removed in response to a complaint and told him that. You would think if anyone would know they were Temporarily on display, it would be those working in the library where they had been on display since 2013. Now that the College is receiving complaints and questions about the removal, they have come up with something they believe would appease those who are against the removal and are they attempting to make the story go away. You also have to believe the professor had a reason to lie about this, as well as those who told him there was a complaint that caused the removal, (if he did not make that up).

Maybe he did lie, but until that can be proven, I tend to believe the pattern of the last 2 years.

Of course this is my opinion. Others feel differently.

Subject: Cornell removes Gettysburg Address, Abraham Lincoln bust from library


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"Maybe it was the ANV Regimental Colors of 33rd Virginia, (Stonewall Brigade), 2nd Bunting Issue; a reenactment flag, not to be seen as anything else. Gawd, some people are SOOO judgmental, do some reading! " :rollseyes

You are the perfect example of "you can lead a horse to water…"
The Confederate flag that was seen in the capitol building is was used as the CS Naval Jack Standard AND in the Western theatre, (Army of Tennessee). It has no relation or use with the ANV. If you would have taken a few moments to look at the flag and my avatar, (which you brought up), you will see the obvious difference.
Really, you should try doing some historical research before babbling such nonsense.

"prompted some people to cry bias and unleash the dogs of the 33rd VA."

No dogs of the 33rd VA were unleashed. 33rd VA as part of the Stonewall Brigade (itself), ceased to be an actual effective unit after Spotsylvania in May of '64.

Well when you see conspiracies everywhere (except of course the biggest and oldest) what do you except.

"The Confederate flag that was seen in the capitol building is was used as the CS Naval Jack Standard AND in the Western theatre, (Army of Tennessee). It has no relation or use with the ANV. If you would have taken a few moments to look at the flag and my avatar, (which you brought up), you will see the obvious difference.
Really, you should try doing some historical research before babbling such nonsense."

Don't know if any of that is true but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but more importantly it has become like the swastika an avatar of just plain hate.

"Don't know if any of that is true but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt…."

You know you can actually look this info up right? There are numerous sites on The American Civil War out there. Numerous discussions on the different variations of the CS Flags and when, where, and how they were used.

Ohhhhh…and thank you ever so much for giving me the "benefit of the doubt!"
I'm not sure I could've gone on without it….

*smdh

Even so called permanent exhibits are not permanent. Things like this don't happen without paperwork. When the exhibit went up there was doubtless internal paperwork. There was probably even a write up in the college paper. When the decision to pull it was made there was more paperwork. That paperwork probably included a statement on what to do with the bust and copy of the EP after it was removed. So what does it say?

I don't have to believe the professor is lying to believe he is wrong. It is possible he is relying on information from someone else who was lying, was misinformed, just made it up or was telling a joke. I don't discount what is happening to Confederate statues and even some Union statues elsewhere. I also can't ignore that the article was written up by a pro-right wing news source.

Let's face it, we now live in the Bizzaro World

Bill+1,

Congratulations, after many fought hard, the Lincoln bust has been returned and in a more prestigious position.

Something not noted I believe before about this statue.

"The bust itself is steeped in history. Just ahead of Lincoln's assassination in 1865, he agreed to sit for a teenage female sculptor named Vinnie Ream, who captured the 16th president's "resolve" and the "weight of the war" that was etched on his face, according to Wayne.

American sculptor Vinnie Ream (1847-1914) poses beside her bust of Abraham Lincoln. Created when she was only a teenager, she was both the first woman and the youngest artist to be commissioned by the U.S. government for a statue.
(PhotoQuest/Getty Images)

After Lincoln's death, Ream became the youngest artist and first woman to ever be commissioned by the federal government for a statue: the Lincoln statue that is featured in the U.S. Capitol's rotunda."

Subject: Lincoln statue back on display at Cornell University library after abrupt removal – WFIN Local News


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While some removals are misguided there are things within the United States that should be cancelled.

Top of that list is glorification and fetishisation of the Confederate States and it's generals.

When I go to Germany I do not see statues of political leaders and generals from the period 1933-1945. I do not see the flag from those years flown from cars, private homes, or public buildings. In Germany you do not see that flag flown at political rallies. In the United States you will see the German flag from 1933-1945 flown at political rallies, alongside that of the naval jack/battle flag – I don't really care which Confederate flag it is – it's a symbol and we know what it stands for.

Am I saying if you fly any Confederate flag you'll automatically fly the German one? No. But some will. And they understand the symbolism of what they are doing.

I am sick to death of arguments about flags and symbols.
When I was young Brit… we wore Confederate patches on our denim jackets, Why… we liked Lynyrd Skynyrd!
I don't care if anyone wants to 'Fly a Flag'… whether Confederate, Swastika, Hammer & Sickle, Union Jack, Scots Saltire, Welsh Dragon… it is up to them… and THEIR views should be respected, whatever they are.

What I object to, is 'Flag Burning' as disrespect… and many internet arguments are pretty much of that ilk.