Paskal | 26 Jun 2022 4:56 a.m. PST |
Hello everyone, Were there infantry squares formed to receive the cavalry during the ACW? Thank you. |
JimDuncanUK | 26 Jun 2022 5:08 a.m. PST |
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Escapee | 26 Jun 2022 6:55 a.m. PST |
A different question might ask how often cavalry charged infantry in the ACW during an open field big battle. |
Frederick | 26 Jun 2022 8:33 a.m. PST |
In reply, sometimes but rarely – and Tortorella is right, ACW cav were pretty reluctant to charge formed infantry over an open field (as they should have been given the rifle-musket) |
donlowry | 26 Jun 2022 9:03 a.m. PST |
Rarely done in the early years because the cavalry was often scattered in small units. At the Battle of the Opequon (Umpteenth Winchester, to the Rebels), in the Shenandoah in '64, some Confederate infantry formed squares when two brigades of Union cavalry drove off the Rebel cavalry and threatened the Confederate rear. Probably did too during the retreat from Cedar Creek, and maybe during the retreat from Nashville, but not sure about those. |
Escapee | 26 Jun 2022 11:39 a.m. PST |
ACW cavalry was for screening, recon, and sometimes big raids/diversions. Massed rifled muskets could handle cavalry on the battlefield. I believe there was a standing joke in the Army of the Potomac infantry that they never saw a dead cavalryman. |
KimRYoung | 26 Jun 2022 3:56 p.m. PST |
As Don Lowery pointed out there were numerous cavalry charges made by the Union by Sheridan's troops in the '64 Valley Campaign and in the later stages of the Petersburg/Appomattox Campaign. Mounted attacks were also made by Union cavalry at the Battle of Nashville. The Confederate's, not so much as many troopers did not even have sabres. There was one incident though at the Battle of Fredericksburg late in the battle where JEB Stuart did order Fitz Lee's cavalry brigade to make a mounted charge against the Union left. Hundreds of Union artillery covered the intervening ground supporting the infantry. As the brigade moved forward at a trot, an aide proclaimed "This will be a second Balaclava." Fitz Lee replied "Yes I know, but we must follow orders." As the brigade was advancing across the plain, a messenger from Jackson arrived with orders to halt the attack and return to their position "or you will not have a man left alive!" Kim |
robert piepenbrink | 26 Jun 2022 4:50 p.m. PST |
"I believe there was a standing joke in the Army of the Potomac infantry that they never saw a dead cavalryman." Commonly in the form of "Five dollars to see a dead cavalryman!" with the amount varying--to which the best reply was that "if this campaign goes on much longer, danged if I won't pay ten dollars to see a live infantryman!" |
Escapee | 26 Jun 2022 5:39 p.m. PST |
Thanks, Robert, had not heard that one! I think the charges were rare and not very large scale as they sometimes had been in Napoleonic times. Just too much firepower against massed troops. Has anyone here gamed Brandy Station? I think it would be interesting and would require some specialized rules. |
Martin Rapier | 26 Jun 2022 11:35 p.m. PST |
The Volley and Bayonet ACW scenario book has a Brandy Station scenario. Tbh I'm not sure I can bothered to paint all the extra cavalry figures needed, they are highly unlikely to get used anywhere else. I thought Shermans brigade formed square at 1st Bull Run? Perhaps I misremembered. |
Paskal | 27 Jun 2022 1:37 a.m. PST |
During the war of 1870, the glorious French cavalry often led charges worthy of yesteryear to allow the withdrawal of infantry and artillery or to break through enemy lines. Yet this war took place after the ACW… Custer threw a lot of charges in ACW, didn't he? But the question is not about the cavalry charges, but about the squares of the ACW. |
KimRYoung | 27 Jun 2022 6:32 a.m. PST |
Paskal, Bottom line is, yes all infantry were trained to form square (as detailed in the tactical manuals of the time) and there are a number of incidents of units that did in fact form square on the battlefield. The most notable was Lane's confederate brigade at Gettysburg that had several regiments form square when threatened by union cavalry during the attack on the Lutheran Seminary. There is no documented evidence that I have seen of an "actual charge" against a formed square, which of course would have been foolhardy. Kim |
Murvihill | 27 Jun 2022 6:34 a.m. PST |
As I understand it European terrain was more conducive to mass cavalry use than the USA and thus they had more cavalry to use. Specifically, forests in the US were far more endemic and impassible than in Europe. |
Martin Rapier | 27 Jun 2022 7:24 a.m. PST |
The force to space ratios were very different in the ACW and FPW, as were the ratios of infantry to cavalry. Even in the Austro Prussian War massed cavalry charges were fairly futile against rifles, even more so against breechloaders in the FPW. Sheridan came up with very effective tactics for cavalry in the ACW environment though, a sort of mix of mounted infantry and shock action. There just weren't that many of them compared to the vast amounts of infantry as they were hideously expensive to raise to maintain (iirc Keegan has the relative costs of ACW infantry and cavalry). |
Escapee | 27 Jun 2022 8:37 p.m. PST |
You are right about painting up cavalry, Martin. I painted some for each side, but never finished as they do not have much of a role. If I had to guess, I would say a lot, maybe most, of the fighting done by cavalry in the ACW was done dismounted. Does anyone know? |
Paskal | 27 Jun 2022 11:05 p.m. PST |
I know the situation was not the same as in Europe, but during the ACW, how many infantry units were slaughtered by the cavalry because they were not in squares? |
KimRYoung | 28 Jun 2022 6:09 a.m. PST |
No infantry were ever "Slaughtered". At best they might have been dispersed or even surrendered though not in huge numbers. For the most part cavalry charges were not successful to any extent and most accomplished nothing. Here is a very good example, Farnsworth's charge against the Confederate right flank 3rd day Gettysburg following Pickett's Charge. link As you can see, not a good result for the cavalry. Kim |
Escapee | 28 Jun 2022 8:02 a.m. PST |
Good article and example. The Gettysburg charge on the 3rd day was a total waste. The changes in firepower had reduced the role of cavalry in big battles. It was the cavalry which got slaughtered. Paskal, I don't think you can justify giving the cavalry a major offensive role in ACW games as you might in Napoleonic rules. |
ScottWashburn | 28 Jun 2022 10:41 a.m. PST |
To add to the list, on October 27, 1864 during the Petersburg Campaign Holman's Brigade (USCT) of the XVIII Corps made a diversionary attack on the Confederate entrenchments. During the action the 37th USCT Regiment formed a square to protect the flank of the attack from some Confederate cavalry. The Confederate cavalry did not attack. |
Escapee | 28 Jun 2022 10:50 a.m. PST |
I wonder how formal these squares were? Fixed bayonets, two ranks? |
ScottWashburn | 28 Jun 2022 11:12 a.m. PST |
They practiced these formations and maneuvers on the drill field. It was the only way they knew how to do it. Doing something the way you've practiced is a lot easier than improvising something on the fly. |
KimRYoung | 28 Jun 2022 12:42 p.m. PST |
Yep, like Scott said, all infantry on both sides were trained to form square. Picture is visual proof: link Kim |
Paskal | 28 Jun 2022 10:49 p.m. PST |
Ah, it's weird, it must be the military culture that causes this… I've always heard that the ACW had been delivered as in the time of this genius of Napoleon I st, but with weapons from the middle of the 19th century,no doubt the terrible losses and reproaches that ensue. On the other hand, it seems that it was exactly the opposite under Napoleon III. In any case when a French cavalry charge fell on German infantry in 1870, it did not form in squares, and the heroes fell on skirmishers who were formed in clusters of 50 men maximum. You should also know that the smoke from infantry and artillery fires on the fields of battle, could allow the cavalry to surprise the infantry. |
ScottWashburn | 30 Jun 2022 6:37 a.m. PST |
Actually, if you look at the statistics, losses in Civil War battles averaged a bit less than they did during the Napoleonic Wars and the wars of the 18th Century. And the German response to the French cavalry charge you mention has its counterpart in ACW tactics. If skirmishers were attacked by cavalry and they could not fall back on a formed reserve, they would indeed form mini-squares by platoon or company. |
Escapee | 30 Jun 2022 7:01 a.m. PST |
Great photo, feels kind of weird to see troops learning to defend against massed cavalry for this war. |
Paskal | 02 Jul 2022 11:10 p.m. PST |
In the "Wargaming in History " of Argus book, "The American Civil War" by Paul Stevenson, page 80,there are some examples of the infantry forming into squares during this conflict. So there were and many more than we say and believeso,because we really feel that Paul Stevenson certainly did not write all the examples he knew of or that actually took place. The fact that infantry "rarely" formed square was mainlly due to tne fact that cavalry "rarely" intervened in the infantry battle and, when they did, the infantry usually had somme cover avaivable which deterred a charge home. |
ScottWashburn | 31 Aug 2022 8:20 a.m. PST |
Just found this picture in my files. A small square with just 4 companies. Wish I could find a pic of when we did it with 8 companies.
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35thOVI | 31 Aug 2022 6:26 p.m. PST |
I know we were part of a big one during a drill at one of the big 125th or 130th anniversary battles. Don't remember which, nor do I have a picture. |