DukeWacoan | 13 Jun 2022 1:33 p.m. PST |
I'm looking again at an ACW project. Currently I have a full set of 15mm figs to do Longstreet's Assault on July 2nd. Not really wanting to add to that necessarily, but I guess it is an option. Looking for suggestions and pros and cons. SCALE? 18mm or 25/28mm? I have not seen AB Figures 18mm, but their 20mm WWII are outstanding. Would they be noticeably bigger than the Stone Mountain 15mm that I have for Gettysburg? Bigger than those is not a negative, as I am looking to do something different, and I would not be mixing the figs. The other option would be 28mm, which would do something similar in size to Perrys, so I assume more likely 25mm if I understand those (I only have WWII and Napoleonic Perrys). OOB? I tend to try and do OOBs for specific engagements and a full campaign. About 30,000 men per side is about all I can do. Ideal it would be something that could fit on a 6x4 table at 1" = 33yds. So 2000m x 2400m for a battle. Tops would be 12x6. I started out looking at just New Market, but it probably has too few units and the situation is not good for a meaningful campaign. Basically you have the one battle and you are likely done. The Valley Campaigns allow for nice ready-made maps to use for a campaign, so that is a plus. Stonewall in '82 might be too small in terms of the number of units, so I am thinking about Early/Sheridan '84. '84 is about right, except the units (particularly CSA) were pretty small, so I would likely need to consolidate some regiments. I've not done more than a boardgame or two on the subject, and historically is was such a disaster for Early, I am wondering if it would be even remotely balanced as a campaign. Any other similarly sized OOBs, perhaps 2-3 divisions per side? Perryville is one people have mentioned, but I don't know a lot about that. I don't know enough about Red River nor whether it would be realistic to do many battles in a campaign. So asking for brain storming and thoughts. |
Extra Crispy | 13 Jun 2022 2:24 p.m. PST |
Firstly, I'd think about terrain. Do you have terrain in both scales? If not, stick with 15mm to save on fences and buildings. You could probably create a very interesting campaign in the Trans Mississippi. Forces would be small so not a lot to paint. But it would be as much a board game (strategic level) as miniatures game to fight out the battles. Another option is Shiloh, but move up in unit size from regiments to brigades? |
DukeWacoan | 13 Jun 2022 2:28 p.m. PST |
I also have a brigade level Waterloo, so want to keep this regimental. No issues on terrain on larger scales, so definitely not doing more 15mm. |
Major Mike | 13 Jun 2022 2:47 p.m. PST |
You could do the period between Stones River and Chickamauga which is referred to as the Tullahoma Campaign for Middle Tennesse. Lots of maneuver and vicious little fights. |
Eumelus | 13 Jun 2022 2:54 p.m. PST |
How about doing the ANV vs AoP cavalry actions of 1863? In rapid succession you have Brandy Station, Aldie, Hannover, and Gettysburg (north field), plus smaller skirmishes. Painting cavalry figures representing 10,000 troopers would be about as taxing as those representing 30,000 infantry. Tactically it's a very interesting period, as fire and maneuver are being practiced down to the regiment and even squadron level. |
Col Durnford | 13 Jun 2022 3:35 p.m. PST |
My first thought was to suggest 28mm for skirmish level. If you are planning just a different force expansion, then I would stick with 15mm. There are a lot of options and I have always been drawn to the valley. |
Blutarski | 13 Jun 2022 7:51 p.m. PST |
Take a look at these two battles involving the Union 2nd Army Corps, both fought on 14 Octber 1863 Battle of Auburn Battle of Bristoe Station B |
Bill N | 13 Jun 2022 9:19 p.m. PST |
You seem to be rejecting as too small battles and campaigns that I tend to think are about the right size. The problem I have with Sheridan's 1864 Valley Campaign is that when Sheridan shows up, Early tends to be seriously outnumbered. The idea that the South lost because of the overwhelming resources the U.S. brought against it may no longer hold water generally. It does apply very well to Sheridan's Valley Campaign. However if you shift slightly earlier and do New Market, Piedmont, Lynchburg, Hanging Rock, Monocacy and Second Kernstown you will have much more balanced actions. Sure New Market, Piedmont and Hanging Rock would be small by your standards. Many of those same units could probably be used for other actions in that campaign. As for small units, model brigades rather than regiments. |
Frederick | 14 Jun 2022 5:57 a.m. PST |
I personally would expand the 15mm rather than start into 18 but as you don't want that option – if you want another scale then I would opt for 28mm for skirmish or 6 mm for grand tactical at the regimental level If you like to paint, hard to beat 28mm and there are lots of great minis out there |
Tortorella | 14 Jun 2022 6:37 a.m. PST |
I have to agree about 28s. Great for skirmish, but 15s looked better for a battle, they give a better impression of armies. 6mm is best for the look of realistic masses of troops. |
DukeWacoan | 14 Jun 2022 6:46 a.m. PST |
I agree on Sheridan, been trying to argue that out. At Cedar Creek there was much more parity. I found online ABs vs Stone Mountain. I don't see much difference in size. |
KimRYoung | 14 Jun 2022 8:53 a.m. PST |
Look at western battles 2nd Corinth, about 22,000 each side Peachtree Creek, about 21,000 each side Perryville, CS 16,000, US 22,000 engaged (out of 50,000) Champion Hill, CS 22,000, US 32,000. Confederates can do much better than historical. Franklin, 27,000 each side, though US has strong defensive position. Better Confederate plan can do better. Kennesaw Mountain, About 16,000 to 17,000 each. Confederates have the defensive position. I have played all these battles, some several times and results ranged from close to historical to other side winning. Kim |
mildbill | 14 Jun 2022 6:43 p.m. PST |
The fight for Missouri in 1861-2 is a great campaign and more important for the course of the war than any other theatre in 1861-2 unless some army would lose big in VA. |
Texan Phil McBride | 16 Jun 2022 7:11 p.m. PST |
If you are looking to game Longstreets July 2nd attack at Gettysburg, do check out the Regimental Fire & FUry rule book scenarios. There is a detailed and very playable game for the attack of Hood's Division at Little Round Top and vicinity. It's well balanced and a lot of fun. |
DukeWacoan | 17 Jun 2022 8:18 p.m. PST |
This is my Longstreets Assault project. It works really well at this scale and size, basically Johnny Reb for everything. But I use Carnage & Glory. link So it is why I am looking for something different in a larger figure scale but also something where I can campaign with not more than 30,000 men per side.
This new one will be 1" = 33yd based on that I am thinking at the moment. |