"Specifically for this or that Napoleonic battle?" Topic

Hello eveyone,

With 25mm figures, are there any wargame rules specifically for this or that Napoleonic battle?

Thank you.

Boardgames for sure. But not figure games: too much effort required to put the armies together to limit rules to a single battle.

Paskal, do you really WANT to learn one one rulebook for Leipzig, then file it away and learn another for Waterloo?

There are, please note, many Napoleonic rules geared for a particular size of battle, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about.

Although there may be scenario-specific rules, the rule books tend to cover a pretty wide swath.

Since he mentions 25mm figures I think he is talking about specific units, but what do I know…

@all :
Thank you but it is surprising that this does not also exist for figures.

@robert piepenbrink :
I want to inquire to find out if it exists, because if it did, such rules with figures would be very interesting.

@dragon6 :
No question of specific units, but of specific rules.

SPI has printed about 12-14 boardgames about various Napoleonic battles. You can download these rules from link

Rules such as Age of Eagles have a large library of historical battle scenarios. You can download them from groups.io/g/ageofeagles

I have created a few videos which cover how to create figure game scenarios of specific battles, for not any specific set of rules, this covered Austerlitz: youtu.be/dvZsd9b0hFw

Bravo ! But real rules for miniatures specifically for this or that battle do not exist?

It's weird.

It may seem 'weird' to you, but it does mean that miniatures rules are more flexible because they can be used to stage refights of historical battles and to wargame hypothetical, 'alternate history' engagements.

I don't own or play boardgames, but it might be the case that boardgames on, say, different Napoleonic or ACW battles by the same designer use a common core of rules, with the addition of battle-specific rules for each game? So, not very different, conceptually, from scenario-specific rules for miniatures.

Actually, there have been several sets of miniatures rules for wargaming the Alamo!

Many scenario books have specific rules for specific battles (often concerning terrain, less often specific units or command issues). It's in the nature of rules that they cover general situations (how units move and fight, how they are affected by casualties) and these apply to many possible battlefields, as they apply generally to each different area of a single battlefield. So no, I don't find it surprising that there are no specific rules for many battles (though I'd add Rorke's Drift to the Alamo)

Groups I know of rarely play simulations of specific battles.
Reason being that everyone would have read 10 books on waterloo.
You'd end up in endless discussions on whether this or that unit had quite the right stats.
If you then said buy a ruleset per game then I doubt you'd find anyone wanted to play.
We routinely take a ruleset and tweak some rules.
To my mjnd, I don't see why it would make sense to have a ruleset per battle.
Guns shoot, cavalry run about etc etc in every battle.

@Paskal,

The only one I can think of which might be considered 'for' 25mm figures would be Charles Grant's Waterloo: link

The other which springs to mind were for 6mm (although there is nothing stopping you from using them with 25mm figures): Baccus did a ruleset specifically for Leipzig: PDF link

To be a bit more expansive, there have been several sets of rules which concentrated on a single campaign. There was the Ebb & Flow of Battle 'modules': the first was for 1809, the third for the Peninsular War, but I forget the second – I think it was for 1813. Don Featherstone did a set specifically for the Peninsular War link and Howard Whitehouse did a very nice set just for the Peninsular War called 'Old Trousers'.

I don't own or play boardgames, but it might be the case that boardgames on, say, different Napoleonic or ACW battles by the same designer use a common core of rules, with the addition of battle-specific rules for each game? So, not very different, conceptually, from scenario-specific rules for miniatures.

This is the case for SPI boardgames, all boardgames use the same systems, with some optional or scenario specific rules. Each boardgame is basically a scenario and if that is what you are after, Age of eagles can give you something similar.

If there are boardgames on specific battles or campaigns, why not with miniatures?

A special Bravo for Whirlwind because, he understood what i wanted.

imho the wargames rules gives the guidelines and the battle scenario gives the specific details for that day of battle

@johannes55:
Yeah…

I have the Charles Grant book on Waterloo mentioned by Whirlwind.

The rules therein use periods (turns) equivalent to one minute and a model: man ratio of 1:20 for 25mm and 1:40 for 15mm.The ground scales are 1 inch/25mm to 10 metres and 1 inch/25mm to 20 metres respectively. Hardly suitable for refighting Waterloo, IMHO!

The author states: "The rules which follow are designed to provide the newcomer with a suitable starting point…They are best suited to the brigade or divisional game but can be adapted.." No adaptations or suggestions for fighting larger battles are provided.

@arthur 1815,

TBF the "Grant way" is to bathtub and I think the implication is that is the approach that players will take (not one I favour personally – "combat is not fractal" one wise old bird remarked.

@arthur1815
It was Charles S. Grant who wrote the 18th century rule: "The War Game Rule"? If so, is it the same system?

@ Whirlwind
she is good or not this rule ?

Paskal, yes it is the same Charles Grant who wrote 'The War Game'. He also wrote a similar Napoleonic set, 'Napoleonic Wargaming' [Model & Allied Publications,1974; republished by Partizan Press, with additional material by his son Charles S. Grant, 2008] which has a scale of 1 inch equals 10 yards and a one minute turn; I think the rules in the Waterloo book may well be a simplification of them.

For the 18th century, with its battalions of 50 figures and more, it's so cool…

Hi Paskal (and I have seen your PM).

I think the rules in the Waterloo book may well be a simplification of them.

Yes they are, Arthur is entirely correct. Just to be clear, there is very little in the book apart from the background material and the campaign scenario which is genuinely specifically about Waterloo IMHO, for the simple reason that Grant, like almost every other rules writer, doesn't have a specific enough combat model for a specific Napoleonic battle to really do this.

@ Whirlwind: she is good or not this rule ?

The bath-tubbing concept or Grant's rules in general? I personally don't like either. Nothing I have mentioned above is a personal recommendation, they were just the only ones which might meet your criteria.

To be honest, I don't agree with the premises of your thinking. Boardgames concentrate on one battle because of physical components, not because they want to have a specific combat model for one battle. At most, they include what would be the scenario specific rules for a miniature wargames scenario as part of the base rules, rather than putting them in the notes. Boardgame and computer game designers who make multiple games tend to use the same basic rules for battles in the same period, or evolutions of the same, after all: think Kevin Zucker and John Tiller.

But anyway you didn't ask for that, you asked for battle-specific rules. So here are the Leipzig Lite things you can't open:

link

link

link

@Whirlwind :
Well this time I was able to open them.Thank you