"How Long Can The Western Consensus On The Ukraine War Hold?" Topic

Grattan54 Supporting Member of TMP 19 Apr 2025 6:30 p.m. PST
Trump is ready to give up on ending the war he said he could end in 24 hours. Hmm. No art of the deal here.

Yeah, I guess nobody anticipated the DEMOCRATS destructively intervening to pressure Zelensky to kill the Cease Fire deal on February 28th. Zelensky had agreed to the deal, told the Trump admin he was coming to DC to photo-op sign the deal, but before he met with Trump he met with Senior Democrats AND Obama and Clinton-era Cabinet members.

He comes out of that meeting, goes to the White House and deliberately destroys that deal in real time.

Given the death rate of that war, that's TWENTY THOUSAND preventable casualties that should not have happened.

You can't have a political party kill a peace deal and then pretend they had nothing to do with it.

But if Zelensky doesn't want peace, let him enjoy war on his own dime. Let the Europeans step into the fray and deal with it. Let the Democrats form the American Legion of volunteers comprised of the faithful with little Ukrainian flag stamps on their Facebook, Twitter and BlueSky accounts.

😂

"Let the Democrats form the American Legion of volunteers comprised of the faithful with little Ukrainian flag stamps on their Facebook, Twitter and BlueSky accounts."

Those 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🏳️‍🌈 wavers don't fight. They stay where it's nice and safe, or flee from their home countries to protest safely in the west.

Another group over the weekend. If you look, you will see the flags again.

Subject: Hunt for trans activists who defaced statues: Met launch search for campaigners responsible for defacing seven monuments, including Millicent Fawcett and Nelson Mandela monuments | Daily Mail Online

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Subject: Trans activists vandalise Nelson Mandela statue during protest

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Why Trump don't want similar peace he offer to Ukraine with illegal aliens? :-)

Peace may be signed within 24 hours. Trump already won this war as US still exist (like SBminisguy said).
Trump simply will give over to aliens all states where illegal aliens are landed (as Russians in Ukraine) and gives up all US mineral resources. US new borders may be secured by Canadian mounted police.

Why Trump don't want similar peace he offer to Ukraine with illegal aliens? :-)

Bad analogy -- but here's what Trump's offered Ukraine in the most general terms, since I don't know of any released details. But in general he's following the same path that ended the Korean War.

1. A Ceasefire leading to a peace settlement (or perhaps just an ongoing armistice)
2. A defended DMZ
3. US economic ties
4. Reconstruction

Do you think the Korean War was any less bitterly fought and less awful than the Ukraine War? That three-year war saw millions of Korean soldiers and civilians on both sides killed, hundreds of thousands of dead Chinese soldiers, more than 36,000 U.S. dead and almost 20,000 UN dead (mostly from Commonwealth nations, but also almost 4,000 Turkish casualties).

This war consumes 2,500 casualties a week -- or a new death every 4 minutes.

Why are you so insistent on prolonging this? Ukraine will never get back the Donbas and Ukraine lost a decade+ ago, about which the Europeans and Obama did nothing. The best Ukraine can do is survive and rebuild -- prolonging the war makes that less and less likely to happen.

I still don't understand where all those volunteer legions are from around the world, of Ukrainian supporters.

Like the:

"The Lincoln Battalion (Spanish: Batall๓n Abraham Lincoln), the major component of what came to be known as the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, was the 17th (later the 58th) battalion of the XV International Brigade that fought in the Spanish Civil War. Named after United States President Abraham Lincoln, the battalion was organized by the Communist International.[1][2] The XVth Brigade was one of many mixed brigades that comprised the International Brigades."

Showing their righteous indignation of Russia and support for the Ukrainians. What better way to show their support, than to die for the defeat of Putin?

I see the flags, I see the protests, I hear the demands for money and weapons, the condemnation if you don't send money and weapons .., but very little personal action.

Still curious.

Early in the war there were a number of stories of Americans and people of other nations going to Ukraine to fight. I doubt it was all bunk. They actually interviewed men from the Us that were fighting there. Now, how many, who knows. Are they still there? Who knows.

Grattan yes there were, and still are. Small numbers, not the brigades I am speaking of. With the amount of people of military age with Ukrainian flags around here and worldwide and all those demanding support, one would think hundreds of thousands at least, would be on the front lines by now. But we are not seeing them. These same ones are out there with Palestinian and Hamas banners in our streets and in the streets of Europe. But again, they are not on the lines in Palestine.

But the cartels have switched to meth.

Yeah, I watch LAW & ORDER, it will kill you, just not as efficiently as Fentanyl.

Early in the war there were a number of stories of Americans and people of other nations going to Ukraine to fight.

Yes a number of vets from the US and many other nations went there to fight the invading Russians. Plus many are still there … So yes, they could be considered Mercs, but they know what they are doing. And fighting an enemy of the US as well. And yes no one fool yourself. The Russians, Chicoms, Iran, islamic terrorists, etc. are enemies of the US and many others in the world.

These are the ones whose corpses were picked up only in the Kursk region of Russia. What were the Western occupiers doing on the original Russian territory? Dig graves for them and meet the coffins))) If you, of course, claim them… Otherwise they will remain somewhere in unknown pits among all the other occupiers who came to this land before. Without names and monuments.

AbramsX: The Army's New Main Battle Tank Built For Just 1 Mission

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Armand

Caprum back to my comment. With the amount of people, especially military age youth, shouting in the streets and with the Ukrainian flag prominently displayed, the Ukraine should be overwhelmed with volunteers.

The point is… they are not.

Same with Palestine.

Their anti colonialism battle, only goes as far as the streets and as deep as someone else's pockets.

Put up or shut up.

Is that what you're saying? No one should express their opinions, let alone protest or whatnot, unless they're willing to pack it all in and go fight!

Silurian

If they are of an age to fight and you feel that strongly about it, yes. What good are the protests? They accomplish little to nothing. Well except I guess the anti semitism by the pro-Hamas protestors. I guess it's easier to harass unarmed Jews, as opposed to armed Israelis. I should probably throw in the Tesla burners as well. I'm sure those Teslas and dealerships put up quite the fight. You always see the 3 flags at all these events…. 🇵🇸🇺🇦🏳️‍🌈. So I assume these youth are all the same.

If you can't fight, protest.

Remember: All these people have no problem telling us how we must commit more money and weapons to the Ukraine! But of course less to Israel. But I'm sure, either way, it's not their money they are committing. ALL and "pay off our school loans!".

But then what fear do they have of justice in our country?

Subject: Minnesota state employee arrested on suspicion of damaging multiple Tesla vehicles

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Subject: Suspect in Tesla vandalizing spree in Minneapolis not to be formally charged

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You can also get away with this. Obvious which group they support.

Again MN

Subject: Kyle Becker on X: "Spotted in Minnesota: "Make Assassinations Great Again." The peaceful left, everybody. t.co/1vYtL5va4u / X


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My point. Their convictions are only as deep as the next cause de jour.

I agree with you entirely that vandalism, harassment and violence are completely abhorrent, and those people, whoever they are, should be locked up.

But that wasn't the point of what I said.
Protest in support of tariffs, protest against them – whatever it is, whatever it is tomorrow – I'm fully in support of it. That's what living in a free country is all about. No need to put your money where your mouth is. To say go fight with Ukraine or shut up about it is absurd.

Sil people can complain about tariffs until the cows come home, I don't care. You can't go to the front and fight for tariffs.

My point still is the same. If you are in condition to fight and you believe with all your heart for the right of the Ukraine to triumph over Russia, you should be on the lines. Otherwise what they do is meaningless. The same for those shouting in support for Hamas. If you can fight and won't, what good are you on the sidelines? Again I speak of those capable of fighting.

But honestly, in the majority of what we see in the streets, they are easily influenced and indoctrinated puppets. They will soon jump to the next cause de jour.

Not much different from the anti war protesters of my era. Once that draft disappeared, they lost interest and moved on to the next cause de jour.

You're absolutely right. That's the nature of youth (ah, those days…) Hot-headed and emotional. And yes, often too dumb to seperate different issues. But most of them will grow up, mature and moderate their views. Can't do that if they're a corpse in Kursk.

35th,

I can't say I have seen large numbers of American youth out protesting in favor of Ukraine. Certainly not on college campuses. But I agree with Silurian, you don't have to go to Ukraine and fight, especially someone who has never been in the military, in order to oppose the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the slaughter, rape and destruction Russia has caused. Sounds to me what good decent people should do.

Could not one say if people want to see illegals deported from the US then they should go out and personally round them up and kick them out or shut up. That wouldn't be true.

I can't say I have seen large numbers of American youth out protesting in favor of Ukraine. Certainly not on college campuses

There were, but swiftly overtaken by the pro-Hamas protests.

Most of the time they are protesting against Israel or Trump/musk, but always you will see the 3 flags in the groups. 🇵🇸🇺🇦🏳️‍🌈. I loved this one at an anti musk Tesla protest.

Subject: Brookline PD on X: "We are looking to identify this suspect who was seen tagging Tesla vehicles with Elon Musk decals. When confronted the suspect claimed he has the right to deface the property of others because it's his "free speech." Contact Detective Ryan McCarthy 617-730-2710 with any info. t.co/OWLXPJI9Bb / X

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"Can't do that if they're a corpse in Kursk."

😂 True

Although I can think of some from the 60's who became teachers, professors and politicians, that we would have been better off without. 😉

"Could not one say if people want to see illegals deported from the US then they should go out and personally round them up and kick them out or shut up. That wouldn't be true."

Grattan are you saying you don't want illegals deported? 🙂

I bet they would find quite a few of us who would help round them up for deportation. Let me carry weapons, give me the right to do it under the law and don't let judges stand in the way and I'd help. I guarantee I'd have multiple volunteer helpers.

What happened in the last 4 years was an unlawful disgrace! It has cost us billions if not trillions of dollars. That is nothing compared to those who were killed, raped or had other crimes committed against them by illegals. None of which were necessary and all of which could have been prevented.

Yes, I want to see illegals deported. What happened under Biden was a disgrace. I was just trying to make a comparison.

I knew you did. 😉

But if the lower courts keep blocking and stall until the 26 election, and if the Democrats take one or both, the house and senate, the millions of illegals will never leave. If they win again in 28, it will all start again. That is my opinion, based on the current crop of democratic candidates

Legal immigrants yes. Illegal no.

Silurian, it is unlikely that foreigners will die in Kursk now – the Kursk region has been liberated. There is one small village left on the very border, but due to its geographical location, its direct assault is not advantageous. The Ukrainians will soon leave there themselves, if they want to avoid encirclement – the Russians are already bypassing them in this area on Ukrainian territory.
Well, they have another thousand kilometers of front in Ukraine for this. So: "Welcome to the defense of the Zelensky regime." )))
According to rumors, if Zelensky continues to resist ending the war, Trump intends to publish facts of corruption in the Ukrainian government, including Zelensky himself…
This will be a bomb that will simply destroy Ukraine… And not only Ukraine.

"This will be a bomb that will simply destroy Ukraine…"

So you agree that Ukraine are free, democratic and law-abiding country?
Unlike Russia, where corruption is the basis of Putin's regime and everyone is aware of it. This is why Trump want to co-operate with Putin?

"Bad analogy -- but here's what Trump's offered Ukraine in the most general terms, since I don't know of any released details.

1. A Ceasefire leading to a peace settlement (or perhaps just an ongoing armistice)
2. A defended DMZ
3. US economic ties
4. Reconstruction"

Why bad analogy? Trump don't want the same terms he offer for others for himself?

1. Ceasefire is good but Russians never follow it.
2. A defended DMZ is good but as Trump will not support Ukraines defence even in wartime he definitely will not support it in peace time.

And here are one big question for you, SBminisguy, where will be the northern point of this new Maginot line?

3. These ties will be the same harmful under Trump as previous ties with Russia.
4. Reconstruction is good, as Russia must pay for it with reparations and contributions and remain under sanctions until all is covered. No sign that this will happen.

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"This war consumes 2,500 casualties a week -- or a new death every 4 minutes."

According to official data, Russian illegal immigrants lose that many soldiers every two days, and the loss ratio is 1:38. You probably mean that the Russians kill 2,500 civilians a week?

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"Ukraine will never get back the Donbas.."

Last message from Putin was that he will give back all mainland provinces to Ukraine for recognizing Crimea as part of Russia. This is the deceitful trick of course but prove that you are wrong.

You do not cut deals with Putin. There is only one side, his. He gives nothing. He has won this one and will be putting his stamp on it. Trump has no more leverage. Dirt on Zelensky does not matter now, and its no more than any one else's baggage except Putin's is my guess. He will head for the hills before they make him visit a tall building.

You do not cut deals with Putin. There is only one side, his. He gives nothing. He has won this one and will be putting his stamp on it. Trump has no more leverage.

OK, since you can't make a deal with Putin, then all we have left us WW3. Good call! Or…Trump still has leverage, he's said if we can't get a deal then Trump will start levying fees on ANYONE who does business with the US, and is also buying Russian energy. That means the Europeans, who talk outta both sides of their mouths on this, would be penalized for buying Russian oil and gas. So at the same time the US is doing "drill baby, drill" and increasing energy production and bringing down global energy prices which undercuts Russia's primary revenue source, it can impede Russia's ability to sell oil & gas.

But, if we follow your logic, this is all we have left:

YouTube link

Why bad analogy? Trump don't want the same terms he offer for others for himself?

Because not all things are the same -- demanding reciprocal trade deals and stopping mass illegal immigration is not the same as ending a lop-sided, deadly and destabilizing war that bears the risk of escalation to Armageddon. Different horses for different courses.

1. Ceasefire is good but Russians never follow it.

Trust but verify. Do you think North Korea is more trustworthy than Putin?!? A Ceasefire is a first step -- stop the fighting and killing to give time for a peace deal.

2. A defended DMZ is good but as Trump will not support Ukraines defence even in wartime he definitely will not support it in peace time.

HTF do you know that? He's already shown willingness to use force when needed, diplomacy when needed -- he uses what works. He tried to cut a deal with the Houthi, they rejected it and kept attacking, so he's blowing the shite outta them.

Right now he's signalling that the US does not support an open-ended LOSING war that risks Nuclear War at a great ongoing expense in lives and resources and money.

And here are one big question for you, SBminisguy, where will be the northern point of this new Maginot line?

How am I supposed to know that? Do YOU know what the DMZ will be? What a silly characterization. Is the Korean Border DMZ the same as the Maginot line? No. Will the design of the Korean Border DMZ apply to Ukraine-Russo DMZ? Probably not. I would expect there would be layers of "trip wires" and defenses -- a border buffer zone of at least 4-5KM, then fences and obstacles, mines and sensors. It's a long border so maybe you need to think about layering your border defenses like the Czechs did (before they were betrayed), using bastions to anchor weak spots, supported by other smaller fixed defenses and terrain to stall and funnel any attacks, etc. I'd let the experts design it.

3. These ties will be the same harmful under Trump as previous ties with Russia.

Dunno what you mean by that, or what you're referring to. Trump's trying to put US-Ukraine economic relations in place for the long-haul that are more than a Patron-Client relationship.

4. Reconstruction is good, as Russia must pay for it with reparations and contributions and remain under sanctions until all is covered. No sign that this will happen.

I don't see that happening. Luckily, the EU has boldly declared they intend to spent trillions of Euros on defense, so with a population and GDP more than that of Russia, they should play a key role in reconstruction an DMZ construction.

"Ukraine will never get back the Donbas.."

Last message from Putin was that he will give back all mainland provinces to Ukraine for recognizing Crimea as part of Russia. This is the deceitful trick of course but prove that you are wrong.

Good to know, hadn't read that! In the past I've said Ukraine won't get that back by Force of Arms, which I still believe, but if Putin is willing to hand those back as part of a peace deal, that's a good development.

Oh well, it pains me to say it but Ukraine is dead, Ukrainian independence is dead because of Zelensky's refusal to enter into peace talks based on where he's at -- which is a position of weakness.

Ukraine peace terms will dictated by Putin, 'cause nobody in the US has the interest in spending one more penny on a war with no end, on man who refuses all peace overtures despite the chaos and pain being experienced by his country without hope of military victory.

Zelenskyy pushes back on ceding Ukrainian land in potential peace deal ahead of London talks

…But amid media reports about the U.S. proposal, Zelenskyy said the idea of ceding territory – including Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, seized by Russia more than a decade ago – is a nonstarter.

"There is nothing to talk about – it is our land, the land of the Ukrainian people," Zelenskyy said.

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Putin must have a big 'ol smile on his face, because, barring some unforeseen event, Zelinsky has just handed him victory. What tragedy.

Just random thoughts here….Why SB? WW3 doesn't have to be the outcome. All these fees and tariffs will hurt us as much as them. The US doesn't drill its own oil, the big oil corps do.

Trump just backed down from China after a visit from US CEOs. China buys Russian oil. And Iranian oil. State oil, for all intents and purposes. The CEOs may have explained to Trump how everything is connected. Somehow the US had the fastest growing economy in the world in 2023 and 2024. They are very worried.

European tariffs on the US average under 2%. Fees levied by Trump would start another round of trade warring. Everything is connected, the economy is global.

Just random thoughts here….Why SB? WW3 doesn't have to be the outcome

Your statement was that we can't talk to Putin -- so we can't strike a peace deal, so all you have is war. And a direct war with a nuclear power on its border inherently risks the use of tacnukes and escalation all the way. I mean, folks on TMP keep telling me that Putin is an untrustworthy blood thirsty psycho -- so why would he flinch at using tacnukes to break through a Ukranian position or whatever?

All these fees and tariffs will hurt us as much as them. The US doesn't drill its own oil, the big oil corps do.

We don't import a drop of Russian energy, doesn't effect us. And can you tell me what Big Oil Corps are in Russia today? None. That's a Russian state monoply – Gazprom and Rosneft.

Trump just backed down from China after a visit from US CEOs.

That's your interpretation -- all I see is some vague nicey-nice words. What did he actually say? That "tariffs will eventually "come down substantially" and then proceeded to say China has to make a deal, "We're going to be very nice, they're going to be very nice, and we'll see what happens. But ultimately," he added, "they have to make a deal because otherwise they're not going to be able to deal in the United States. So we want them involved, but they have to ‒ and other countries have to ‒ make a deal, and if they don't make a deal, we'll set the deal."

So I only see the same conditionals he's always stated -- but did you catch that last part -- if China doesn't make a deal, the US WILL SET THE DEAL. That's not "backing down" talk.

Well, the US will have some spare cash after we cut off Zelensky, then we'll see just how committed the EU is to Ukrainian defense.

Oh well, guess only time will tell.

Cuprum- do you have a link to the Statista page with the Kursk casualties?
No news of it in the UK…..over 150 UK KIA is a huge number

Well we knew they used NK and a few others. Seems both sides have their group of "volunteers".

Meduza News:

"More than a year into the invasion of Ukraine, in September 2023, Vladimir Putin declared that Russia had no need for foreign mercenaries. The nation's homegrown supply of fighting men was more than enough, he explained. However, according to a new investigation by the news outlet iStories, mercenaries from at least 48 countries have joined the Russian military throughout the war. Journalists studied a leaked copy of Russia's Unified Medical Information and Analytical System database and calculated that army recruiters in Moscow alone enlisted more than 1,500 foreign nationals between April 2023 and May 2024. All these recruits listed the same address as their place of residence: a single army enlistment center at 5 Yablochkova Street, Building 1. Meduza summarizes what iStories discovered.

The leaked medical records show that the largest number of foreign fighters — 771 people — came from South and East Asian countries. Former Soviet states ranked second (523), followed by African nations (72). When it comes to single countries, the highest number of recruits came from Nepal: iStories found that at least 603 Nepalese nationals passed through the enlistment center on Yablochkova Street. The discovery provides new context to a request from Nepal's government to the Kremlin in November 2023, seeking to halt the recruitment of Nepalese citizens. The leaked database reveals that this recruitment nevertheless continued.

iStories also reviewed records showing that the military has welcomed into its ranks several foreign combatants from countries that Moscow has formally blacklisted as "unfriendly" to Russia, including at least 2 U.S. citizens, 2 Latvians, 2 Italians, and other Europeans. Serbia has supplied the most men among the nations Russia considers "friendly," with eight mercenaries.

Elsewhere around the world, another 71 mercenaries came from the Middle East, including Egypt (31), Iran (7), Algeria (7), Iraq (2), Syria (1), and Turkey (1). Seventy-two people were recruited from African nations with high unemployment and poverty rates. The top three African countries in terms of recruits were Ghana (26), Cameroon (10), and Senegal (8)."

Interesting statement from the SecTreasury today on the need for China to change: "China can start by moving its economy away from export overcapacity and toward supporting its own consumers and domestic demand," Bessent said. "Such a shift would help with the global rebalancing that the world desperately needs."

But we all know that China cannot really develop its domestic consumer economy with the CCP in charge in its current form…

"Because not all things are the same.."

Of course not, friendly illegal aliens versus hostile and armed illegal aliens.
But the solutions may be the same.
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"Do you think North Korea is more trustworthy than Putin?!?"

Definitely. Both are Chinese puppets but Kim is more controllable.
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"A Ceasefire is a first step -- stop the fighting and killing to give time for a peace deal."

Of course. The ceasefire must be started from March 20th but Putin continues to kill civilians. And Trump only says, that "Not necessary, and very bad timing." So Trump suggests that there are proper timing and necessity to commit genocide against the Ukrainian people. Trump also refused to sell air defense systems to Ukraine so that the aforementioned genocide could be committed at the proper time.
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"HTF do you know that?"

As I said in a previous post, Trump already refused to sell air defense systems to Ukraine. So we all know that.
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" "SBminisguy, where will be the northern point of this new Maginot line?"
How am I supposed to know that? Do YOU know what the DMZ will be? What a silly characterization. Is the Korean Border DMZ the same as the Maginot line? No."

You don't know the main characteristic of Maginot line?
Unlike the Korean DMZ line, which ran from coast to coast, the Maginot Line was encircleable. So I asked from you where will be the northern point. You don't know. So your DMZ propaganda is baseless and ignorant.
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" "4. Reconstruction is good, as Russia must pay for it with reparations and contributions and remain under sanctions until all is covered. No sign that this will happen."
I don't see that happening. Luckily, the EU has boldly declared they intend to spent trillions of Euros on defense, so with a population and GDP more than that of Russia, they should play a key role in reconstruction an DMZ construction."

If you don't see that happening and you don't know nothing about DMZ then what you talking about? Trump will pay for that DMZ and reconstruction? As Europe and Ukraine will gladly rebuild Ukraine with Russian reparations but Trump wants to save Russia and force Ukraine to pay him.
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"Good to know, hadn't read that!"

After couple of hours Peskov already denied all. Like Trump's "I said that? I don't believe that I said that!"
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"Oh well, it pains me to say it but Ukraine is dead, Ukrainian independence is dead because of Zelensky's refusal to enter into peace talks..
..Putin must have a big 'ol smile on his face, because, barring some unforeseen event, Zelinsky has just handed him victory. What tragedy."

Don't post such nonsense. It is not Zelensky but Trump who handed victory to losing Putin. Like Paul I, after death of Catherine the Great, saved Friedrich I.
What did Trump do for peace? Absolutely nothing so far.
What did Trump do to save Putin and start WWIII? All he could do.
Trump also wants to become America's illegal Czar for Life, like Putin.
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"Well, the US will have some spare cash after we cut off Zelensky, then we'll see just how committed the EU is to Ukrainian defense."

The dream of Trump and the Russians. The destruction of Europe by WWIII.
From which we are protected only by Ukraine so far.

In what order will Trump betray us all?
1. Ukraine
2. Baltics
3. Western Europe
4. Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, etc. Once chip production is moved out of Taiwan.
5. Betraying Israel is a bit more difficult
6. Freedom of the American people under a new Tsar

The result will be the decline of America and the rise of China, or even WWIII if it hasn't already ended everything by then.
Because everyone sees the treachery of America led by Trump and takes refuge under China's protective wing.
At first, everyone expects that the American people will vote Trump off soon. But by then, Trump hopes to be the Czar.

Although Churchill's words that "America will do everything right, finally, when all other possibilities have been tried" may also come true.

I stand on the side of Ukraine. This war is totally on Russia.
However, I think Zelensky has to realize that Crimea is gone. They are never getting it back. To not budge on that is not wise. Use it as a chip to get other areas of Ukraine back from Russian occupation.

We all know … this war is because of Putin and the war continues because of Putin.

And as always, we don't know what really is going on behind closed doors.

SB. There is no more risk of nukes than usual,I think. Why contaminate what you have won? Xi and Putin do not care what happens to their people…they will set the deal and take the pain.

They are watching Trump and wondering. I think he is backing off again…but this is a good thing. He can try the long game instead of beating the world over the head with a sledge hammer. As I said before America had the world's fastest growing economy in 2023 and 2024. Why fool with it. Go after the tariff issues incrementally and keep talks going.

Trumps approval rating on the economy is 37% this week, Reuters.

What's your plan, Sho Boki? You don't like the idea of a Peace Deal + DMZ + Reconstruction (and your strawman attacks are weak, there's no way to conflate a Korean-style DMZ or DMZ in depth with the Maginot Line). Ya ain't got one except war to the end. And you don't seem to get it that Ukraine cannot win by force of arms, even of they fight to the last drop of Ukrainian blood. Oh well.

They are watching Trump and wondering. I think he is backing off again…but this is a good thing. He can try the long game instead of beating the world over the head with a sledge hammer.

What's to wonder? You keep acting like Trump has a secret plan -- he usually doesn't. He might use hyperbole to express or frame an issue – but he tells you what wants, and even what he's going to do, then he does it and explains why he did what he did and what can happen next. He said the tariffs were put in place as an incentive to negotiate new reciprocal trade deals and he has taken the moral high ground by framing this in terms of fairness.

Let's talk, he said -- and those countries that wanted to talk had the tariffs dropped, and we see new mutually favorable deals being negotiated with countries like India.

Those that don't want to talk -- the tariffs stay in place until they do.

Those that retaliate get treatment in kind, until they want to talk.

Seems pretty clear to me.

"However, I think Zelensky has to realize that Crimea is gone. They are never getting it back. To not budge on that is not wise. Use it as a chip to get other areas of Ukraine back from Russian occupation."

Crimea is not gone, Crimea is just occupied and annexed. And may be such dozens of years, like Karabakh. Other areas are completely destroyed by Russians and it is wise to take it back only when Russia will be ready to pay reparations and contributions and will leave occupied territories by himself. Russian victory is possible only thanks to Trump's help.

"What's your plan, Sho Boki? You don't like the idea of a Peace Deal + DMZ + Reconstruction."

I like this idea very well.
But regrettably you are not able to say where will be the northern point of DMZ and you want that Reconstruction will be paid by someone else than Russia (and US). So your idea have no base and no sources of coverage.

Dolphinless, the table may be fake. I found this refutation of the previously posted table. Although I would not be surprised if this information was removed from "Statist" under pressure, since it was in any case compiled based on reports from the Russian Ministry of Defense. This is official information and any state can request more detailed information about its citizens killed in the conflict zone.

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"The Russian Ministry of Defense continues to track and personally record all foreign mercenaries who arrived in Ukraine to participate in hostilities.

Since February 24, 2022, the total number of foreign mercenaries who arrived in Ukraine has amounted to 13,387. At the same time, 5,962 foreign mercenaries have been confirmed killed to date.

Poland is the undisputed leader in the number of militants killed (2,960 arrived, 1,497 killed).

1,042 militants arrived from Georgia, of which 561 were killed.

The 1,113 "soldiers of fortune" who arrived from the United States lost 491 people killed.

More than 40% of Canadian mercenaries were killed (422 out of 1,005).

Of the 822 militants who arrived from Great Britain, 360 were destroyed.

784 mercenaries arrived from Romania, 349 were destroyed.

From Germany – 235 and 88 respectively.

It is worth noting that France, which at all levels denies the presence of its mercenaries on the territory of Ukraine, has already lost 147 militants out of 356 who arrived."

This is published data for February 2025. Until the liberation of the Kursk region.

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35thOVI, Russia has never hidden the fact that it invites foreigners to serve under contract, especially in Russian PMCs.
North Koreans do not serve in the Russian army – these are official contingents of the North Korean army, which act in accordance with the official alliance treaty between the states on joint border protection.

Looks like the US and Canada have simultaneously invaded each other according to the map above.

Not any a single Russian casualty fighting for Ukraine?…

Armand

Honestly, I think I am not very skilled at getting Trump's agenda from the word salad that sometimes happens. Or the statement from yesterday changing today. This is who he is and I get it, its on me.

"What's your plan, Sho Boki? You don't like the idea of a Peace Deal + DMZ + Reconstruction."

I like this idea very well.
But regrettably you are not able to say where will be the northern point of DMZ and you want that Reconstruction will be paid by someone else than Russia (and US). So your idea have no base and no sources of coverage>

What's YOUR DMZ plan look like? Do you know what the "northern point" will be? And yes, facing reality, Russia will not pay for a Ukrainian DMZ -- so who will?

West Mercs have frequently showed in a number of conflicts. This is nothing new really. Many joined because they saw Putin's war of imperialism. Many in the West/NATO remember what a threat the USSR was during the Cold War. The Russians still are not a friend to the West. No matter how you try to spin it. E.g. Lip stick on a pig …

That being said, I think no matter what Putin is going to continue to annex/hold the Crimea. He has no reason to stop the war. He does not care about losses. Short answer – He lies. And wants to take as much of Ukraine he can and hold it. He really has no claim to Ukraine, but he does not care.

Tort,

Trump has been having some tough weeks here. Publicly begging China for a trade deal and not getting one. He has to admit he can't fire the Fed Chairman. He begs Putin to "stop" in Ukraine and then publicly admits he can't end the war (gee, I though he could do it to 24 hrs). Japan, India and other countries leave Washington with no trade deals. He can't get Iran to reach an agreement (I though he was this brilliant negotiator). The Sec of Defense is screwing up and the Defense Department is in chaos (who thought picking a weekend co-host of a morning show would cause so much trouble). Musk has to walk away from Doge. Things just haven't been going right.

Yes, except for the border, a rough start. And he has drawn forces from the Pacific to deal with the Houthis, looks like potential for another forever war.

The Chinese and Russians can sit back and watch all of this for now.

"What's YOUR DMZ plan look like?"
I don't have DMZ plans. It is part of your plans but you even don't understand what you talking about.

"Do you know what the "northern point" will be?"
Not WHAT but WHERE. The northernmost point must be where the Russians cannot go around. So where it must be by your opinion?

"And yes, facing reality, Russia will not pay for a Ukrainian DMZ -- so who will?"
Nobody asking that, we were talking about rebuilding the infrastructure destroyed by the Russians and compensation to the relatives of fallen Ukrainian heroes.

Of course, I understand that you can't say anything sensible about this and are starting to distort the meaning. :-)