"How Long Can The Western Consensus On The Ukraine War Hold?" Topic

"We have to support Ukraine, and not start WWIII …"

Could not agree more!

EU Says Lithuania Must Allow Rail And Truck Transit Of Russian Goods To Kaliningrad

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Armand

Ukrainian soldiers are trained by German army on Gepard anti-aircraft tank

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Armand

Are armyrecognition articles usually just one relevant sentence and then a lot of filler (& a photo from 2002)?

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Nice pic of Gepard !

As I have said … if Putin wins … NATO loses. NATO has to attrite the Russians to the point that they cannot do offensive operations in the region.

Maybe… it began to fall…?

EU To Ease Sanctions On Russian Banks

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Armand

Militancy on the Eastern Front: The Pridnestrovian Moldovan Republic and the Ukrainian Theater of War

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Armand

Moldova Blocks Russian Troop Rotation In Transnistria. Ukrainian Army Says It Is Ready to Help Moldova Expel Russian Soldiers Stationed In Transnistria

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Armand

Russia is interested in buying Turkish combat drones to use in Ukraine

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Armand

Even though Turkey is a NATO member … wouldn't surprise me for they sell them to NATO's 1# enemy at this point. $ talks … I wonder if any NATO members are challenging those sales ?

FWIW – E.g. the PRC/CCP is buying up large swathes of land in the USA. Even some near USAF, etc., bases. They own one of our biggest pork producers in the US already.

Obviously, no one at the top are paying attention while this happens. Or may care. It has nothing to do with their Green agenda, etc.

So again, $, as which may happen with the Turks, talks. Who knows who get kickbacks from the PRC/CCP … even some Americans possibly?

💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰 We will know who "won" when our street signs are in Mandarin and English. And we pay for our food, gas, etc. with Chinese currency …

The CEO of the Turkish drone company has already stated that they will not sell to Russia
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Yes these Chinese land purchases have now drawn a lot of attention. The states involved did nothing about it. But they can regulate land use unless they are getting something from this as well. And guess where China's largest bank, 70% government run, has had its US HQ and paid millions in rent for the last dozen years? It's just business folks.

Not too worried about Chinese currency. The dollar still rules. None of the green agenda has made it through Congress until it was suddenly back on the table yesterday. Weird. The heat may be affecting some people.

So here is the scoop on ND land and the Chinese. link

Just a check on US residential real estate deals with the Chinese shows that they peaked in 2017 and 2018, but fell off after that and bottomed out last year.

As their economy declines, and they are in the middle of an internal power struggle as they head into their big political event in the fall, I think they will leave us alone if we leave them alone for now. But down the road, who knows? Some people here like their money.

stated that they will not sell to Russia

williamb +1 Thanks for the Intel ! I had not heard that … Glad that the Turks remember they are part of NATO.

Vlad, No Turk Drones for you !!

None of the green agenda has made it through Congress until it was suddenly back on the table yesterday. Weird. The heat may be affecting some people.

The Go Green minority cultists are very determined … just ask them …

But down the road, who knows?

Yes who knows … ? But I know this the PRC/CCP is in it for the long game.

Climbing the escalation ladder in Ukraine: A menu of options for the West

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Armand

Spain starts the process to deliver 20 M113 APC armored vehicles to Ukraine

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Latest version of Russian Pantsir air defense system is used in Ukraine as Bayraktar drone killer

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M270 MLRS MARS II from Germany has arrived in Ukraine

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Norway donates IVECO Lynx armored patrol vehicles to Ukraine

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Poland to send first batch of 8 KRAB 155mm howitzers part of contract signed with Ukraine

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Germany to deliver 16 Biber bridge layer engineer tanks to Ukraine

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North Macedonia donates its T-72A main battle tanks to Ukraine in exchange for Western tanks

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Armand

Anti-Radiation Missiles Sent To Ukraine, U.S. Confirms

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NATO reveals its goal in Ukraine conflict

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Armand

video by Swissmartini on Switzerland and the Russians, Aug 13, 2022.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

UK, Denmark contribute additional money, weapons to Ukraine

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Armand

Looks like NATO finally gets it … What their purpose is and what has to be done. They need attrite their #1 enemy right across their borders. To insure he does not do this again anytime soon if ever.

Latvian Parliament Declares Russia Is A State Sponsor of Terror

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EU Nations Move To Bar Russian Citizens From Entering Their Countries

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Ukraine takes delivery of 4 Zuzana 2 155mm self-propelled howitzers sold by Slovakia

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Latvia has delivered Mi-17 and Mi-2 helicopters to the Ukrainian army

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79th Air Assault Brigade of Ukraine receives 11 MLS Shield armored vehicles purchased in Italy

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Russia accuses UK of ‘deliberate provocation'

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Armand

Russia accuses UK of ‘deliberate provocation'

What are they going to do ? Operation Seelowe ?

Its not as if there was a "war", so why not allow an overfly? They asked nicely.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Lithuania to launch 5 training courses for Ukrainian military in August

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Armand

Its not as if there was a "war", so why not allow an overfly? They asked nicely.

Of course, the Brits are generally a very polite lot. Next to the Canadians … 😎

Six M109A5Oe self-propelled howitzers sent to Ukraine by Latvia already in action

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Ukraine army uses old Soviet 130mm M-46 guns received from Croatia

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M109 HOWITZER: THE 60-YEAR-OLD US WEAPON NOW SMASHING RUSSIANS IN UKRAINE

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Armand

AFAIK the USA is still using the new upgraded version of M109A6, IIRC. We had them in the US Army FA Bns when I was on active duty, '79-'90. They were reconsidered very accurate and very effective. I.e., Been killing our enemies for quite some time.

UK's Top ‘Other Ranks' Soldier Must Be Ready To Fight Russia

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Armand

During the Cold War, we were all training to fight the Russians/WP. We know how to train to do that. And more …

EU Considering Massive Military Training Program For Ukrainian Forces

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Armand

Sounds like a good idea … and this continues to show Putin what a pariah he and his nation is. Whether he cares or not. Russia still has to exist in the world community eventually … but again they must not care …

Turkey's Foreign Minister Says Several NATO Members Want The Ukraine-Russia War To Continue

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Armand

Russia's Invasion Of Ukraine Has Created Drama In The Anti-War Community

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Armand

Didn't the U.S.navy use harrier jump jet's and I seem to remember they bought up all the mothballed surplus after Britain stopped using them?
I might be wrong.

Where Are The Western Weapons In The Ukraine War?

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Armand

"Where Are The Western Weapons In The Ukraine War?"
More moonofalabama propaganda. Rehashing a quote by someone who had not done a census of military equipment, but was making a guesstimate about humanitarian aid.

They don't seem to realise that Poland is part of 'the West' now so that Polish tanks are from 'the West'.

"Other videos showed the wreckage of M-113 armored transport vehicles, apparently from the Netherlands." – The linked video doesn't show a wrecked APC.
Yes, the Netherlands is also 'the West'.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

@Quartermass
US Marine Corps used Harriers
Marines got 72 from the UK for spare parts after UK retired them.

"Other videos showed the wreckage of M-113 armored transport vehicles, apparently from the Netherlands."

I commanded an M113 APC Mech Co., '87-'89 with an Active US Army Mech Bn. A few years later they were replaced by M2 Bradleys. I was gone by then.

The US sent M113s to the ANA, now in Taliban hands.

The US did or will send M113s to the Ukraine forces.

"Other videos showed the wreckage of M-113 armored transport vehicles

That does not surprise me. The M113 while very mechanically reliable and easy to maintain. It is very vulnerable to almost everything. Today IMO M113s should not be very close to front.

moonofalabama is under the mistaken impression that the west is sending modern weapons, also seems to have the impression that stingers are modern. The west is sending mostly old stuff.

Some Ukrainian units don't have modern western weapons. This just means that the west is not sending enough, not that they are going missing.
TDBs don't even have any artillery (videos from the 110th TDB are probably their drone operators calling artillery strikes from other units). The old Australian 105mm guns have gone to units like the airborne brigade. The west needs to send more artillery.

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Regardless just because a weapon is older, does not mean it can't be effectively used. As we see how the Ukraine has used vs. the Russians. A weapon is only as good as it crew + good leadership. The Russians demonstrate just the opposite it appears. And as we see that gives the Ukraine a real edge.

The west needs to send more artillery.

And everything else, IMO.

So they are calling for a rough winter in Europe. How will resolve hold if rationing of fuel starts to be heavy? Russia "really" shuts the Spicket off and hardships become heavy? Middle Eastern countries join with a reduction or huge increase in cost?

Well, looks like Going Green is not as easy as some have been telling us …

Are you saying going green may have them turning blue this winter? 🥶

Are you saying going green may have them turning blue this winter? 🥶

Or purple … But those making these types of decisions will be warm, clean, well feed, etc.

US Speeds Plan for New Armored Vehicle and Sends Older Models to Ukraine

FWIW – that M113 in photo in the article is the Aussie extended version, the M113AS4. Which they said they were sending to the Ukraine. AFAIK the US never used that version. The AS4 has 6 road wheels, the M113 has 5 …

As the weeks go by the Ukrainians are rotating out units and training replenishing them. Equipment gets rotated and serviced.
Meanwhile the Russians drag out older and older stuff (relying on Iran and the Norks to fill the gaps) and scrounge for manpower.

Sort evaluation … the Russians are in trouble …

Seems it's holding…

Germany to deliver four more PzH2000 self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine

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US to possibly send tanks to Ukrainian army but model remains in discussion

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Armand

This seems to be a major break…

Hungary Says It Will Not Support Any New EU Energy Sanctions Against Russia

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Armand

This is THE question…

Just How Long Should the US Send Aid to Ukraine?

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Armand