Murphy | 30 May 2022 11:26 a.m. PST |
2020-2022 seems to have been rough for a lot of companies. We lost Dust last year, and this year so far I see Foreground and Acheson closing their doors, and I think I remember a few more. So the question I am curious is "Who (as in which companies) have ceased business since 2020, and how is this reflecting on the hobby as a whole?" |
Rich Bliss | 30 May 2022 12:14 p.m. PST |
4Ground. How many new companies have started operations? |
Tortorella | 30 May 2022 12:42 p.m. PST |
The companies I deal with are still here, maybe 10-12, and seem like they are doing okay. I actually spent more than ever on this hobby during the pandemic, did not have shipping problems here or from the UK. It helped remind me that things were still rolling along in many ways. But this reflects the fact that the shopping is online. I had more time on my hands, but did not want to go out. So I started ordering. And ordering. New scales. New periods. Being able to shop online for wargaming stuff was a great diversion during this time. |
Wackmole9 | 30 May 2022 2:23 p.m. PST |
and you all wonder why all the brick mortar stores are closing. Just last week I found out the Hobby store I have been buy from for the last 50 years is closing. Thompson's hobbies of Lakewood Co, is soon to be no more. |
Murphy | 30 May 2022 3:20 p.m. PST |
Rich, Yeah I knew 4ground (Foreground) as I mentioned it. |
Prince Alberts Revenge | 30 May 2022 4:45 p.m. PST |
Timecast in the UK is up for sale, not sure about its future but sounds like Barrie and Mark are moving on from the business. I believe there are a few others that haven't been mentioned that I am fogetting. |
Deucey | 30 May 2022 4:58 p.m. PST |
Funny. I saw Foreground and still thought you missed 4ground too! |
jhancock | 30 May 2022 6:53 p.m. PST |
…Roundway and Naismith, Warrior,… |
Arjuna | 30 May 2022 6:59 p.m. PST |
I'm much more concerned about all those great new 3D design studios bringing out truckloads of new models that I'll never be able to print in my lifetime. On the plus site, hoarding stl files doesn't take up much space, a miniscule fraction of a cubic millimeter on a hard disk somewhere at most…. |
79thPA | 30 May 2022 7:42 p.m. PST |
Syr Hobbs is no longer in business. |
Stryderg | 30 May 2022 7:53 p.m. PST |
@ Arjuna Yeah, but you can't push STL files across a table, so there is a down side. |
Arjuna | 30 May 2022 9:08 p.m. PST |
@Strydberg Nor can I push the manufacturer's molds across the table, which is what your comparison implies. The prints from those files on my hard disk I can push over the table within a few hours. Hundreds within a weekend with a fraction of the cost per miniature of those unpainted mountains of lead in countless hobbyist basements. Of course after a few decades most of those unpainted mountains of lead also sell just for a fraction of their former price… |
Stryderg | 31 May 2022 5:22 a.m. PST |
@ Arjuna My apologies if I gave offense, none was intended. My bane is collecting PDF rules, many of which never get read and most of which never get played. We each have our lead mountains to deal with. |
Arjuna | 31 May 2022 5:40 a.m. PST |
@Strydberg Oh my! No, no, no. No offense, nothing to apologize! I'm no native English speaker, so it may well be that I sound much harsher than it is meant. Apart from my comments on Ultramodern about the Ukraine, ruzzia and geopolitics, everything I write is not necessarily always completely serious. I generally do not take myself quite seriously. In doubt, just ask. So, everything is fine! |
Arjuna | 31 May 2022 5:53 a.m. PST |
@Strydberg Of course, my comment was not entirely fair, because 3D-printed miniatures printed by himself will not be the norm for customers in the future. It is and will be too fiddly/messy for some time. |
Extra Crispy | 31 May 2022 6:15 a.m. PST |
It's not all doom and gloom…. - QRF has come back and is under new management, ditto Heroics & Ros
- Baccus is so busy they have to stop taking orders just to keep up with demand.
- Iliada Game studios does really keen laser cut terrain and vehicles.
- There are too many STL sellers to count. 3D printing will certainly be a mainstay for future gamers as the tech gets easier and cheaper.
- New products arrive all the time.
- Kickstarter has been a boon to many companies able to reduce risk in product introductions.
- New rulebooks continue to come at a good clip. So enthusiasm is still there.
That said, I barely made it (ScaleCreep.com) thru.
|
Swampking | 31 May 2022 8:12 a.m. PST |
Musket Miniatures has gone under The ones I truly miss are Falcon Figures UK and Jeff Valent but they've been gone for longer than I care to count |
Templar2 | 31 May 2022 10:30 a.m. PST |
EMP with Command Horizon in 6mm have gone off the Internet Gerard |
robert piepenbrink | 31 May 2022 1:31 p.m. PST |
Not to be callous, but this is pretty much how things have always been in miniature wargaming. We're a niche hobby. Most of the businesses are part-time and almost all of them are sole proprietor. I get upset over lost figure lines and rules which are in copyright limbo, but I'm not sure the last few years have been worse than usual. How would you prove it? |
Murphy | 31 May 2022 4:40 p.m. PST |
"How would you prove it?" I'd have to say Robert that when companies come out and say "Sorry we can't afford to produce, or even ship our product anymore." like a couple of companies, (DUST and 4ground come to mind) say, I would then say that that is a good indicator. |
Garand | 31 May 2022 8:00 p.m. PST |
Warrior To be honest, I haven't noticed anything new from Warrior since I entered the hobby. They seemed to be sailing on their old molds for old collections. When I was looking for armies to invest in, they came across as being very dated. Some of the other manufacturers I'm not super familiar with. How much of this is old companies that haven't updated their catalogs or ranges in decades, simply buckling in under reality? If you continue to churn out 25mm figures in an era of 28mm, then you're range is going to look a bit dated & sales will probably drop off. Damon. |
mildbill | 01 Jun 2022 5:29 a.m. PST |
Most figure lines have a 5 year 'lifespan' where adverts and word of mouth in the first year leads to a great year 2 and 3 then a falling off to residual sale thereafter. If the company figure line sales were big enough the residuals can be pretty good esp. if you add to the line. So , you have to keep cranking out new lines or add to existing lines or eventually fall out of the race. |
microgeorge | 01 Jun 2022 10:42 a.m. PST |
Extra Crispy, will QRF resume their 15mm post-war line? |
gunnerphil | 01 Jun 2022 11:43 p.m. PST |
Microgeorge. I do not think QRF will. The said that if no one bought the lines they would destroy the molds. Some line were bought up |
Murphy | 02 Jun 2022 2:27 p.m. PST |
Gunnerphil; Some of the QRF modern production molds were pretty worn out anyway. A couple of the T-55's I got from there, were horribly cast and had mold pour holes in their fenders, etc. |
robert piepenbrink | 02 Jun 2022 2:34 p.m. PST |
Murphy, "the plural of anecdote is not data." I could--pretty nearly did--fill a two-car garage with products of companies which later ceased production. To get me to panic over 2020-2022, you'd need to prove that we lost a higher percentage of the miniature wargaming industry than we did in 2017-2019, or 1999-2001, and that they're not being replaced. This would be tricky to figure out for even normal industries. Amuse yourself some day by trying to work out how many English-language book publishers there are, and the relative importance of numbers of books, numbers of titles and sales in dollars. In wargaming, no one has any idea of the appropriate unit of measure, the records are borderline non-existent, and we're on about our third or fourth revolution. I predate buying miniatures in hobby shops, so I've gone through mail order, hobby shops, back to mail order, and now to digital rules and terrain. If I didn't already own more figures than I'm likely to paint, there'd be a 3D printer in a back bedroom turning out armies. What's the balance between losing Dust and the availability of a line of 10mm WWII stl files? How does either one compare with the rise of custom figures and dice on Etsy? I'm sorry companies you favored are gone, but by itself, this doesn't say anything about the hobby as a whole. |
gunnerphil | 02 Jun 2022 11:44 p.m. PST |
Murphy I agree. But the man asked the question, and there seems to be a fan base out there |
gunnerphil | 03 Jun 2022 12:04 a.m. PST |
For me the biggest change in spending is due to new postage and customs regulations. The extra 20% plus handling fee means I now look to companies that are IOSS registered. Or will buy once a year on a trip to UK |
Murphy | 06 Jun 2022 9:58 p.m. PST |
"Murphy, "the plural of anecdote is not data." I could--pretty nearly did--fill a two-car garage with products of companies which later ceased production. To get me to panic over 2020-2022, you'd need to prove that we lost a higher percentage of the miniature wargaming industry than we did in 2017-2019, or 1999-2001, and that they're not being replaced. Robert; Didn't know I was required to prove "evidence" of the demise of the hobby, considering that I simply asked the question of "Which ones have we lost", and the fact that certain companies have come out and said "We can't afford to do this any long in todays production, materials, and shipping cost environment". Whether you think it's anecdotal or not, it's what both Dust and 4ground have put out. It is what it is. I was just curious as to what other companies have closed up, and/or gone away. YMMV and probably does…. |
Tortorella | 10 Jun 2022 1:08 p.m. PST |
Of course I miss the old hobby store where I got my first Airfix. I miss a lot of things from that era. But I have found online a range of stuff for the hobby I never could have found in stores and a lot of companies came into existence simply because it was cheaper and easier to use the internet to represent their business ideas. And maybe more than a few of the old stores are still with us in online versions today, saved by the lower overhead. I began buying online in the late 90s. I am sure some companies did not survive the pandemic, but a number of sites I used to buy from came and went over the years. It may just be the nature of the hobby. |
Beaumap | 16 Oct 2022 9:24 a.m. PST |
I am actually amazed by how few HAVE gone. Warrior, Naismith, etc were moribund 20 years ago! By the way, QRF is well back, and is indeed producing post-WW2 vehicle ranges again. However, the new owners have found out about the poor moulds the hard way. Much of the range was withdrawn again a few weeks ago! (And a very fair price rise implemented). Nonetheless it's a good sign. |