"Infantry recommendations for Whfb Empire..." Topic

Greetings. My first WH fantasy army I'm going for is the Empire Army for 8th Edition.

There are quite a few infantry options to go for and I was looking forward to hearing what some of you have been successful with.

In particular, what units do you prefer and why. Do you prefer a "shooty" or a "melee" army (or a combo).

Thanks for any tips!

U.K.

Hello,
I am just finishing my "Empire Army".
I picked up some Perry Landsknechts, for a really good price as the start of my army. It was a great (cheap) way to get me playing fast and to see if I liked the system. Shame on me- I do. (Don't knock it till you've tried it. :)

Since then I have purchased the Forgeworld Swordsmen and arquebusiers. 20 man units each. I have a 30 man unit of halberdiers to back them. A 30 man unit of crossbows and 20 more arquebusiers. 3 units of 10 each Knights (they are ok but get Killed fast). 4 artillery pieces. 6 Gryph Knights (but I want three more). two of the big magic casting vehicles and a SteamTank round out my army. Oh yes a unit each of Outriders and Pistoliers, although I'm still figuring out how to use them. Oh and I do have a few magic users and Generals to buff up my army. The steamtank can do damage if you are lucky but …

I go with a shooty army. All of my fancy melee stuff gets crushed by my enemies vastly better magic and melee units.
It seems that Empires advantage is large armies of cheap units?

Good luck, good hunting. And most of all…have fun.

As mentioned above, look at historical figure lines (Old Glory is another one) to keep your costs down.

Back in the 6th and 7th days they were a "combined arms" list for a game that never really rewarded those types of lists. Felt it was always a challenge to get the balance of units right, and also you had to account for their weakness to fear and terror and the Herohammer factor (units were delivery vehicles for characters, who did all the heavy in game lifting).

Flagellants, Steam Tanks, Pistolliers and big blob units loaded with the right character/magic item/magic banner combos were the standard, and even then none of those units and characters were as good as their equivalent in other lists. Except maybe the flagellants, those nut jobs were solid units iirc. Caveat to this is that I tapped out completely within the first months of 7th ed, so not sure how 8th panned out for them.

Try looking up the "Reman Legion" army. It has a lot of infantry and eschews the toys, but it was the only version I had luck with, taking 3rd in a large tournament.

As others have said, the Empire is conceived of as a combined arms approach where each arm is weak compared with its opponents and the use of the detachment rules and character upgades boosts the line

My thoughts are as follows

In 6th and 7th the spearmen were viable however, in 8th for the points the additional rank does not amount to a great deal and you are better off with swordsmen as their WS4 I4 and Parry Save makes them better value for the points.
If you go infantry hevay the greatsords especially with griffon standard can hold the line and see off some scary opponents

The detachment rule hardly works a great deal and seems so easiy countered that it is hardly worth the effort.

Where the Empire excels is in its artilery and war machines and the pistolers who are extremely good.

in terms of shooty you have a choice between handgunners and crossbow, so its range versus armour penetration

For a bit of context, how large a force are you planning to put together, and is it goung to include something else than just infantry (artillery, cavalry, steam tanks, wizard wagons etc.)? And what sort of opposition are they expected to face on the tabletop?

Also, are there any visual aspects that you want to consider for your units? Melee infantry is best employed in large units, at least four ranks deep, with all the frills and drills you can upgrade them with (standards, musicians, champions, shields etc.). Missile infantry on the other hand is better employed in smaller units, two ranks deep, and less in need of upgrades to dent the enemy.

As for model options, you might want to take a look at the new plastic Conquistadors from Wargames Atlantic:

link

I haven't seen them live, but looking at the pictures they seem very promising and there is lots of options on the sprues: swords (one- and two-handed), shields, spears, halberds, crossbows and firearms, plus pieces to make a drummer and standard bearer. That would cover at least five different Empire troop types – and with some bits box delving you might be able to convert them into archers or free company fighters.

There is a video review out there for the Wargames Atlantic conquistadors which shows they are very compatible with Perry figures and also Warlord's plastic Landsknechts, a little less so with Artizan (which has a good landsknecht range). The Perry's are late 15th century, not early 16th like the conquistadors, but that isn't necessarily a problem with a fantasy army.

I would be fairly certain the Wargames Foundry landsknechts (metal) and related ranges will work well with Warlord and Wargames Atlantic plastic as well.

There is also a Forest Dragon 3D printed range available in EBay or on Etsy that is a direct copy of the GW Empire range, which can be printed in 28mm or even larger. This range includes cavalry, flagellants, and some artillery.

Have you seen the Highlands Miniatures range of 3D printed figures?

check out the following video which shows them printed out
YouTube link

Even if you don;t have a3d printer there are licenced sellers on ETSY and EBAY.

I have some Highlands—I forgot about those. They are nice.

Thank you all for input.
As to Grief's question I'd like to get the army up to 3000 points as quickly as possible. For non-infantry I will definitely have 1 unit of knights probably maxed out.

For other units like Heroes or Wizards I haven't made any plans yet. I've just received the Empire Army book and need to plow through it.

one of the best units in the army is the Demigryphs, they have a lot of damage output. I'm not sure if these are still available but they turn up on eBay and Highlands do a version that look the part.

You will need something that dish out the damage as the infantry really just hold the line.

I'd like to get the army up to 3000 points as quickly as possible.

That's not a small force, and may require quite a number of figures.

If you are going for an infantry-heavy force, it might be possible to include 200+ infantrymen, as well as some artillery and cavalry support.

Yep, my first list came out to about 180 minis. I then shaved that down to 150 and even a 120 figure list. Taking a 40-man block of Greatswords eats up a lot of points (almost 500) as do Reiksguard Knights.

We'll see how things go. Though I never got into Warhammer I always enjoyed watching the games at my club that featured big 40-man block units.

Should be fun going. At least the Plastic Empire minis are still available at somewhat reasonable prices (unlike their Orc & High Elf Bretheren).

40 Greatswords seems a bit over the top (?). I found blocks of 25 to 30 infantry is a sweet spot

As you will have discovered you need to have 25% of your troops from the core section which contains the standard infantry and knights. At 3k that's 750 points The Empire infantry are pretty fragile as they are T3 and mostly 6+ saves so they get scythed down by most troops. 30 figure blocks of hlabdiers are the way to go. Swordsman get a 5+ save with a 6+ ward and so are potentially more durable and with SW4 are more likley to hit but with reduced damage output.

I second the recomendation of 25-30 greatsords I like giving the Griffon standard as it doubles thier rank bonus. a +6 rank bonus really helps.
I'd recomend not going overboard with the core troops as the Empire needs its pistoliers, demigryphs and cannons
for missile troops you get a choice between handguns, crossbows or bows. I have never seen massed bows used in an empire army . Handgunners trade range for armour piercing and it depends on who you are facing as to which is better.

If you have not done so already, have a look at the tactics sectionon 1d4 chan for Empire/

link

At least it's not KOW, or those 40 men may end up balancing on a tree or something.

In that vein, are you doing all individual basing, or (sensible) unit basing (such as 4 on a 40mm square base) or just movement trays?

I did go with 30 Greatswords. That should serve most needs I think.

What's your plan for the line infantry? You might want to support those Greatswords with at least one big block of melee infantry.

Hey Grief. Here's the current 3k iteration I'm going with:

General Mounted
Battle Wizard
Witch Hunter
Captain
30x Greatswords
10x Pistoliers
10x Reiksguard
2x 20 Spearmen
4x 10 Handgun (Detachments)
30x Swordsmen
30x Halberds
20x Crossbows
1x Great Cannon
1x Blaster

I took very little in the way of magic or standards. Something I will probably change at some point. For my first army I was kinda trying to make it a jack of all trades.i look forward to your advice!

That last entry should be "Helblaster".

I'd suggest swapping Demigryphs in place of the knights as they do a hell of a lot more damage

Thank you. I'll look into the swap tonight.