Bellerophon1993 | 14 Apr 2022 12:38 p.m. PST |
What Battle was actually fun to game? I kinda found Gettysburg a bit of a bore, if we're being honest. I really enjoyed Antietam though. |
cavcrazy | 14 Apr 2022 12:48 p.m. PST |
We gamed Shiloh last year, it was a great game. |
Wackmole9 | 14 Apr 2022 12:52 p.m. PST |
1st Bull Run is a fun game |
Eumelus | 14 Apr 2022 2:04 p.m. PST |
+1 for 1st Bull Run, for a number of reasons: (1) There's a fairly good amount of clear terrain, it's not the forested nightmare so many ACW battles are; (2) The forces are fairly even, and arrive bit by bit so there's plenty of choices for the commanders to make; (3) There's just no telling what your troops and subordinate commanders will do! Managing chaos is the best you can hope for; (4) The list of brigade commanders is a who's-who of later ACW notables; (5) Most colorful uniforms of the war; and (6) A tremendous battlefield to visit, open vistas, exceedingly well marked, and a lovely visitors' center. A vigorous day's walk can take you everywhere but you will put some miles on the hiking boots. |
David Manley | 14 Apr 2022 2:13 p.m. PST |
Trent's Reach is one of my favourites |
tigrifsgt | 14 Apr 2022 2:41 p.m. PST |
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McWong73 | 14 Apr 2022 3:00 p.m. PST |
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Saber6 | 14 Apr 2022 3:27 p.m. PST |
Champion's Hill Day One of Gettysburg |
John Leahy | 14 Apr 2022 3:46 p.m. PST |
Bill Run, Mechanicsville or 2nd day of Gettysburg. Thanks John |
DisasterWargamer | 14 Apr 2022 4:58 p.m. PST |
Battle of New Market for small Port Republic and Cross Keys for larger |
KimRYoung | 14 Apr 2022 6:53 p.m. PST |
My personal favorite was always Antietam and the one I played the most, but I think the most satisfying has been Murfreesboro. Pretty much a stand up even battle, with good chances for either side. Shiloh probably a close second. Kim |
Grattan54 | 14 Apr 2022 7:20 p.m. PST |
I once saw a 6mm Fredericksburg done in a large scale. It did look fun. |
Dexter Ward | 15 Apr 2022 5:29 a.m. PST |
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Extra Crispy | 15 Apr 2022 6:00 a.m. PST |
Gettysburg can be a GREAT game if you randomize reinforcements. Since *everyone* knows exactly when and where troops will show up it takes a lot of the drama out of the game. |
Lascaris | 15 Apr 2022 6:28 a.m. PST |
+1 Extra Crispy. I've had a couple really fun Gettysburg games. One historical with randomized entry and one, that was even more fun, set in the Franco-Prussian War with the Prussians taking the part of the confederates. |
corzin | 15 Apr 2022 8:08 a.m. PST |
i see some of you guys like 1st bull run or antietam…how do you simulate the command problems of those battles? |
Eumelus | 15 Apr 2022 9:04 a.m. PST |
Re the command problems at 1BR, most rules have some sort of mechanism that imparts a chance for units and/or subordinate commanders to hold in place despite players' wishes (representing lost couriers, misunderstood orders, hesitation or second-guessing among unit commanders, etc.). For 1BR, just increase that chance to represent the rank amateurism of everybody (even those with military/combat experience were almost certainly holding a higher rank with greater responsibility than they had ever held previously). Along with that, however, give units a small chance to not only not do what they're told but to do something entirely unexpected and random. In the face of uncertainty, veterans will probably always take cover (and catch up on sleep if possible), but rookies may take it in their heads to charge that high ground, or fall back to the junction, or set up kettles for boiling soup… As for Antietam, another great mixed terrain and another superb battlefield to visit. But a wargame of the battle almost has to have a limitation on how many Union forces can be committed at one time, or they'll just sweep the ANV away by sheer numbers. |
donlowry | 15 Apr 2022 9:42 a.m. PST |
My take on 1st BR is that both sides tended to put in 1 or 2 regiments at a time, so very little coordination at higher levels. Been reading and writing about Wilson's Creek lately. Never gamed it, but looks like it could be fun. |
KimRYoung | 15 Apr 2022 10:10 a.m. PST |
As for Antietam, another great mixed terrain and another superb battlefield to visit. But a wargame of the battle almost has to have a limitation on how many Union forces can be committed at one time, or they'll just sweep the ANV away by sheer numbers. Not really. I've run this game with some limitations (9th Corp crossing the Antietam, conditions for 5th Corp to be committed and delays for 6th Corp) and also ran it several times with no limitations on the Union. We saw the Union win more times WITH limitations and lost several times with zero command limits. It's amazing how many times that players fail to come up with a cohesive and organized plan and cannot work together in a coordinate manner, or simply sit and do nothing as they are uncertain of what they should be doing as the Army commander player losses focus. The belief that game players will be more competent then a McClellan or a Burnside is not always the case as over the years I have seen many players that would make Ben Butler look like Grant! Command problems are such a major problem in multi-player battles that I really see no need to create artificial ones in most cases. Kim |
Eumelus | 15 Apr 2022 10:22 a.m. PST |
Kim: I'm not doubting your word, I'm just astonished that an unfettered Union side with full historical hindsight was unable to not just defeat but crush the ANV. How much imagination does it take to wave one's cap forward and command "sic 'em, boys"? |
Frederick | 15 Apr 2022 11:30 a.m. PST |
Agree about Antietam – have enjoyed playing it but you need to use various "fog of war" techniques 'cause if you play it hands-up, Little Mac sweeps the field |
KimRYoung | 15 Apr 2022 1:55 p.m. PST |
Eumelus, Frederick, Yes you would think so, but running a lot of games over the years I have seen more head scratching moments by game players that I am no longer astonished. Since Antietam was mentioned and, I have ran that battle a lot, that is what I commented on. A better example was a Chancellorsville game I once ran. No special rules other then hidden units were used. 8 players. The Union side was forewarned that their flank was "In the Air" and Confederates could possibly appear from the board edge. The Confederates were given the option prior to the battle to make Jackson's flank march or remain with Lee. The Confederates opted to make the flank march and hope that hidden dummy markers could slow the Union. The Union side incredibly ignored any flanking threat and pushed forward to find the enemy and crush them. Poor cooperation among Union players kept units from advancing in coordination and went in piecemeal. When Jackson appeared on their flank they couldn't believe they actual made the historical move. Jackson struck a couple units on watch and then hit the flank and rear of 11th Corp crushing them in short order. What little success they had advancing forward was soon lost. It was even a bigger loss then the Union suffered historically. Ironically, Lee was killed early in the fight and Jackson was the survivor! Sometimes you have to just shake your head, but since then I have never doubted that it was not possible for gamers with knowledge of the historical outcome to still perform as bad, or worse then the real commanders. Kim |
MiniatureWargaming dot com | 15 Apr 2022 7:44 p.m. PST |
Some of the most satisfying ACW games I have played were pieces of a larger battle: the Peach Orchard, for example. |
Bill N | 16 Apr 2022 12:52 p.m. PST |
A good battle to wargame is one where the numbers involved, the terrain and the goals of the combatants give both sides about the same chance of winning, without adjusting the rules in a way that would handicap one side. My issue with Antietam is that it was the lack of coordination on the Union side coupled with Lee's ability to shift troops from quieter sectors to the crisis location that allowed Lee to survive. In a neutral wargame this would require a bunch of favorable rolls by the Confederate player and a bunch of unfavorable ones by the Union player. |
ChrisBBB2 | 16 Apr 2022 11:58 p.m. PST |
A couple of my favourites are The Wilderness and Chickamauga. These are fought in dense terrain which unexpectedly actually promotes maneuver because it nullifies long-range artillery. AARs here: link link |