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"Finland And Sweden Could Join NATO As Early As This Summer" Topic


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Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP11 Apr 2022 9:11 p.m. PST

"Finland and Sweden could join NATO as early as this summer amid the Russian invasion of Ukraine – as US officials blast Putin's war a 'massive strategic blunder'.

Membership is understood to have been a 'topic of discussion' during talks between NATO's foreign ministers last week…"


More here
link


And Russia warns….


link


Armand

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP11 Apr 2022 9:34 p.m. PST

Russia warning Finland or Sweden about their decision to join NATO would seem good evidence to believe they should join NATO.

Why should Russia have veto power over membership in a foreign organization of foreign nations?

Does Russia control membership the EU also? Russia is not a member and it's none of their business who joins.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

gregmita211 Apr 2022 9:52 p.m. PST

Wow, Russia's "diplomacy" is so bad now that they are basically pushing countries into NATO. It reminds me of China's "wolf warrior" diplomacy.

witteridderludo12 Apr 2022 1:56 a.m. PST

Vlad's "I don't want a NATO country on my border" policy is working like a charm :-)

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian12 Apr 2022 4:45 a.m. PST

Putin sees it as a provocation, and the expansion of a 'hostile' alliance…

Choctaw12 Apr 2022 6:12 a.m. PST

What exactly will Russia do to stop it? Their vaunted military is looking a little ridiculous at this point.

Andrew Walters12 Apr 2022 8:37 a.m. PST

Putin needs to recalibrate. Sanctions are double-edged. The more people cut him off, the less he can cut off. If Europe doesn't buy his fossil fuels he can't threaten to cut off their supply. Add this to the poor military performance and coming military exhaustion and his threats sound a little hollow. Except that he has nuclear weapons that might work. It's a weird situation, but then WW1 and WW2 started in pretty weird ways, too. The question is how far China will back him, and we all know what happened in 1914 when it was unclear how much backing allies were going to give each other.

dapeters12 Apr 2022 8:55 a.m. PST

China is waiting/hoping that either Russia attacks the West or the West attacks Russia. Serbia is also hoping so.

Legion 412 Apr 2022 9:16 a.m. PST

Yes as I have said before many nations on Russia's borders does not want to happen to them what is going on in Ukraine.

The PRC is flying missiles to the Serbs. Who are BFFs with Putin AFAIK. The plot thickens …

link

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian12 Apr 2022 12:26 p.m. PST

The PRC is flying missiles to the Serbs. Who are BFFs with Putin AFAIK. The plot thickens …

But that was ordered years ago.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2022 12:42 p.m. PST

An easy way for China to look like they are helping Putin, while actually just filling an old order so they continue to stay on the sidelines.

hornblaeser12 Apr 2022 3:19 p.m. PST

One thing to remmember is that Finland didnt take the peace dividend, demobilize as germny, Sweden and Denmark did. They are fully armed and has a functioning reserve, with complet mobilization plans. They are not afraid.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2022 3:22 p.m. PST

Thanks.

Armand

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2022 3:42 p.m. PST

Too bad poor Moldova isn't in there!

Legion 412 Apr 2022 4:14 p.m. PST

But that was ordered years ago.
Well they were made & came from China ! 😁😆😎

Regardless … the Serbs have some new weapons … That is worth noting from an intel standpoint.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian12 Apr 2022 6:49 p.m. PST

Too bad poor Moldova isn't in there!

Don't know how that would be feasible, considering a chunk of their country is already occupied by Russians.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2022 4:04 p.m. PST

Finland and Sweden set to hold rapid discussions on joining NATO, saying Russia's Ukraine war changed everything


link

Armand

Legion 413 Apr 2022 4:23 p.m. PST

Moldova like Belarus is under Putin's "influence". I heard on the media Finland & Sweden are probably going to join NATO. Putin in the end will be the big loser and hopefully punished for war crimes, etc.

Griefbringer14 Apr 2022 4:05 a.m. PST

Moldova like Belarus is under Putin's "influence".

By my understanding, only the Transdnestrian region in the east. That said, he would apparently want to have the rest of the country under his influence for some obscure historical reason.

dapeters14 Apr 2022 9:07 a.m. PST

I think Putin is starting to look kind of desperate given his latest threats against those two countries. He going to have a NATO wall right on his threshold.

Legion 414 Apr 2022 9:58 a.m. PST

By my understanding, only the Transdnestrian region in the east. That said, he would apparently want to have the rest of the country under his influence for some obscure historical reason.
That sounds about right/ more accurate … And in many cases Putin is living in the past.


He going to have a NATO wall right on his threshold.
Yep … old Vlad really Bleeped texted up this time. His attack on the Ukraine turned out to bring about his worse nightmare.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP14 Apr 2022 4:40 p.m. PST

Russia Threatening A Nuclear Escalation If Sweden And Finland Join NATO


link

Pure Madness…


Armand

Arjuna15 Apr 2022 8:32 a.m. PST

According to Sauli Niinistö, the acting president of Finland, in an interview with the German news magazine 'Der Spiegel', Powder Box Putin told a Finnish journalist in 2016:

"Currently, when we look across the border, we see a Finn on the other side. If Finland joins NATO, we will see an enemy on the other side.

In case you want to look that up, you may translate the interview with Deepl.com, that Great German AI translator online.
It's even better than google translate.

Interview with President Sauli Niinistö on 'Der Spiegel'

It's easy:
Translation of the last answer of Sauli Niinistö in that Interview with 'Der Spiegel'

Arjuna15 Apr 2022 9:13 a.m. PST

>>>Russia Threatening A Nuclear Escalation If Sweden And Finland Join NATO

Everyone knows that a certain second-rate regional power already has nuclear weapons in the Baltics.

Only their little green men on vacation are running short from time to time.

Word on the street is, they also have problems with logistics and the tires of their trucks.

And, of course, they lack flagships.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian15 Apr 2022 9:22 a.m. PST

They may have nukes on the bottom of the Black Sea now…

Arjuna15 Apr 2022 9:39 a.m. PST

>>They may have nukes on the bottom of the Black Sea now

Yeah, those Tsunami Doomsday Torpedos we talked about on Ultramodern Warfare a year ago, or so.

If it goes on like this, the real Rus from Kiev liberate the Muscovites from fascism in the Kreml around the next Eastern Church Christmas.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP20 Apr 2022 10:19 p.m. PST

Putin "Nukes" Sweden Again – This Time Nearly for Real

link


Armand

Legion 422 Apr 2022 2:18 a.m. PST

Any use of nukes by Putin will only put Russia in a worse place worldwide than it is now, etc. He and many of his higher-ranking officers are war criminals now. He may not care, but many Russians do or will.

SBminisguy22 Apr 2022 8:05 a.m. PST

What a stupid diplomacy tactic, basically Putin is telling them, "You have nothing to fear from me, but if you don't' do what I want, I'll kill ya!"

Winning!!

Ghostrunner22 Apr 2022 5:45 p.m. PST

If he is playing with a full deck, it's 52 Jokers.

Heedless Horseman22 Apr 2022 8:40 p.m. PST

Frankly, I say just Go for it. If they want to join NATO… then let Putin action. That is what NATO is about. NOBODY wants WW3… and very little forces now actionary… but things are getting ' down to the line'.
I am now too old to DO anything… but can remember Cold War.
West needs Massive REARMAMENT and fast.
In MY day… the possibility of being FRIED… was just part of life. Utter Horror… but…WW3, was alwauys there.

Legion 423 Apr 2022 10:20 a.m. PST

With Finland & Sweden joining NATO as they don't want to happen to them as is happening in the Ukraine. IMO Putin is in no position to threaten anyone. With the current marginal performance of his forces, etc. Short of using nukes and AFAIK he is not that dumb …

Griefbringer23 Apr 2022 12:59 p.m. PST

That article is pretty unreadable with all the embedded stuff, but it seems to miss the difference between applying for NATO membership and actually joining.

If Finland and Sweden would apply for membership in near future, it would likely happen in June, with the major NATO summit taking place at the end of the month.

However, a new country becomes an actual member only once the membership has been ratified by the parliaments of all the existing (currently 30) countries. A process that usually takes 4-12 months. Unless all of the parliaments in question decide to make it an urgent topic (and maybe even compromise with their summer holiday schedules), summer would likely be over by the time there are new members in the treaty organisation.

It is worth noticing that the NATO article 5 (mutual defense) only applies to actual member countries. Country that has applied for membership, but whose membership has not yet been ratified, does not have guarantees of protection from existing member countries in case of an external aggression.

Legion 423 Apr 2022 4:33 p.m. PST

Yes, neither nation has become part of NATO yet. And as I said with them joining NATO, [whenever that is] they are playing it safe to cover their Bleeped text. From Putin or his successor, etc.

And yes Article 5 only applies to actual members. If otherwise Ukraine would have NATO troops, tanks, etc., on the ground in country. As we know Ukraine is not part of NATO.

And yes if membership is not ratified yet, then they may not get help from NATO. So short answer if Putin/Russia wants to attack Finland or Sweden they better do it now.

But as we also know, Russia does not have the numbers, capabilities, etc., to attack anyone at this time. As they are stuck in Ukraine currently.

Legion 424 Apr 2022 8:44 a.m. PST

Saw an interview with Finland's ambassador[IIRC or some high ranking official], saying it's probably going to happen that both Finland & Sweden will join NATO soon.

I'll take that a Yes, vote.

Griefbringer24 Apr 2022 9:19 a.m. PST

Finnish parliament has started the debate about possible NATO membership, though not all parties and politicians have made up their mind yet. However, the last parliamentary parties are expected to come up with their decisions within two weeks from now. Some estimates claim that up to 90 % of members of parliament might end up being in favour of NATO membership in the present circumstances, though this is still speculation.

In Sweden the process is progressing a bit slower – but if Finland decides to apply, that will serious increase the pressure for Sweden to apply, too.

wardog24 Apr 2022 12:32 p.m. PST

not covered by article 5 but i assume finland and sweden will fight as one?. anyone figure what total combined strength would be?

Legion 424 Apr 2022 4:54 p.m. PST

Finland decides to apply, that will serious increase the pressure for Sweden to apply, too.
I believe that will happen sooner than later. Especially as Putin War continues to destroy, kill, maim, etc.

not covered by article 5
Yes only NATO members.
but i assume finland and sweden will fight as one?.
I had not heard that but that could be the plan. If need be.
anyone figure what total combined strength would be?
I'm sure on the net is a list of both nations weapons, etc.

And viola' !

Finns – link

Sweds – link

Griefbringer25 Apr 2022 10:06 a.m. PST

There is plenty of cooperation between Finland and Sweden on many areas, including defense, though no formal defense pact. However, as EU members they are expected to support each in case of conflict. And even without that, it would be rather unlikely for one to stand idle if the other one gets attacked.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP26 Apr 2022 10:08 p.m. PST

Sweden, Finland Gave Up Neutrality a Long Time Ago


link


Armand

dapeters27 Apr 2022 12:09 p.m. PST

Both countries have always known that there was just one potential enemy.

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP27 Apr 2022 3:17 p.m. PST

Without doubt….

Armand

Legion 427 Apr 2022 3:41 p.m. PST

Yes I don't think any other nations in Europe planned to invade them since WWII. They like many of the current NATO members that used to be Warsaw Pact. They do not want to be attacked or under the Russian boot … again …

IMO a wise move on both those countries' parts to plan to join NATO. As we see the Russian leadership is stuck in WWII or maybe the Cold War.

dapeters28 Apr 2022 12:49 p.m. PST

Finland was not part of the Warsaw Pact, they had a defense pact with Russia, which kept them from being in any other defense treaty.

Legion 428 Apr 2022 2:12 p.m. PST

Never said they were, neither Sweden nor Finland wre WP. But Finland was invaded twice by Russia. Before & during WWII … I'm sure both nations after seeing Putin's invasion of Ukraine, as I said, they want to cover their collective Bleeped texts …

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP29 Apr 2022 10:19 p.m. PST

NATO Scrambled Fighter Jets Multiple Times This Week To Intercept Russian Warplanes Near Alliance Airspace In The Baltics And The Black Sea

YouTube link

link

Armand

Griefbringer01 May 2022 8:09 a.m. PST

But Finland was invaded twice by Russia. Before & during WWII

Independent Finland was invaded by Soviet Union in early WWII (November 1939 – March 1940).

Prior to that, Imperial Russia used to invade Sweden (to which Finland belonged for a long time) and vice versa for a number of centuries, ending in 1809 with the Russian capture of Finland (which became an autonomous part of the Empire until declaring independence in 1917).

Legion 401 May 2022 9:23 a.m. PST

Yes, I wargamed and studied about Russia invading Finland in '39 and later in '41.

Prior to that, Imperial Russia used to invade Sweden (to which Finland belonged for a long time) and vice versa for a number of centuries, ending in 1809 with the Russian capture of Finland (which became an autonomous part of the Empire until declaring independence in 1917).
Good information … however bottom line, I watched the Finn's & the Swede's Reps/Ambassadors to the USA, talking on the news yesterday and before. Both saying they will most likely join NATO. Soon …

Adding to Putin's nightmare of NATO continuing to gain members as a defense against him and Russia. That is what NATO was created for – Defend the West from Russian/WP. Now many former WP are now part of NATO …

Hey Vlad … you Bleeped texted up big time. And there is no one to blame but your imperialist fantasy of being Peter the Great, etc. Dude you ain't even Vlad the Marginal. 👎👎 You and your supporters are nothing but war criminals …

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa01 May 2022 11:41 a.m. PST

Even submitting their respective applications is giving Putin 'the finger'. Given what he's said previously its going to interesting to see what he does. Frankly there isn't anything he can do IMO apart from the tell the Russian media to get Winston Smith to write out of history the threats he made.

Legion 402 May 2022 8:35 a.m. PST

There is nothing Putin can do to stop any nation from joining NATO …

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