"More Confederate Names & Symbols Under Review" Topic

Congress' Naming Commission has revealed what else besides base names may get relabeled or removed—right down to a water tank.

Defense One: link

I said once they start listening to the small minority of the "woke", it will never stop. They will never be happy until our history is obliterated completely. It all started with the Confederate battle flag. Now it is statues, building names, street names, school names, food products(Aunt Jemima, Land of Lakes…), Team names, mascots. They will never be happy, it will never be enough.

As a Yankee from Detroit and an Army Veteran/Retiree I have no problem getting rid of Southern names on US Army installations. Should have never happened in the first place. Fort Hood should be Fort Audie Murphy to start……..

It was a way to help the healing process in the South.

Like it or not, it's our history. Renaming and/or destroying things will not change that history. Grow up and get over it! Better yet, read a history book.

Considering Fort Hood opened in 1942, everyone at the time would have been saying, "Who the heck is Audie Murphy?"

No it does not help the healing process in the South. Those bases were named after Confederate Generals in the South to begin the healing process in the south during the two World Wars. The idea was to make those who had relatives who served in the Southern states know that their history was part of our common history. And to honor those who fought for their home state in an honorable manner.

Now erasing those names takes away that healing. The Woke crowd have attacked St. Louis, Jesus, Columbus, George Washington and Lincoln and Black Union soldiers statues. This is about destruction of Western Civilization by destroying our past.

As an American I honor Crazy Horse, Confederate Generals, Black Union soldiers, Dr. Martin Luther King, and all other Americans who fought for their homes and their people as part of our common heritage.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

I will take Fort Alwyn Cashe over Benning any day. We have heroes to honor, people we should never forget, who deserve this on their own merits. The lost lost cause narrative is for for museums now. Part of our history, as it should be, but not part of our military today.

I want soldiers at that installation to remember the guy who pulled his buddies out of their burning BFV, his own uniform on fire, in Iraq. He didn't make it. An example for every young guy who serves there to relate to. Benning is part of our history, but not much of a modern role model.

It's about giving some new people their due, IMO

It had absolutely nothing to do with healing! It was meant from the start to maintain and exert absolute control over that part of the population in the South members of the Left believed they still owned. As they also did in all the Big Cities in the Northern States East of the Mississippi.

I said once they start listening to the small minority of the "woke", it will never stop. They will never be happy until our history is obliterated completely.

You know I once heard someone say doing good has no end. Enjoy the goodness. <sarcasm included>

Everyone read this, correct??? It is not just the fort names. It's the obliteration of anything with a Confederate name. Do you really believe they will be happy with just Confederate names? They aren't now. Next will be any name of a slave owner, Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Boone, Marion, ….. Then Columbus, Crockett, Custer, Wayne, anyone involved in the subjugation of the Indian. These are the same people who defaced the 54th Massachusetts monument. To quote: "Come on man!". "doing good never stops".

Do-gooders never stop. Their problem is all they have is good intentions. Thye have no thought of real results and don't understand unintended consequences. And you know what the road to hell is paved with.

The thing is, I don't really have a problem with the base name changes, as long as they don't go down the PC highway for new names. But they won't stop there.

The whole controversy over the Confederate battle flag. Why just it, they were offended by? It flew only a short time over slavery. The British and US flags, much longer. Even the Spanish and French royal flags did.

The Indians of this country practiced slavery in at least some tribes. Do we eradicate their names on places and names, or are they politically correctly protected and therefore, exempt?

I say again. Base 1, base 2 , Base 3, and no one can be happy.

Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta…..

Why use greek alphabet with its western bias? (sarcasm mode on)

At one time there was a Fort Grant, Fort Sherman, and Fort Thomas. They've since been closed as U.S. Army posts, so I suppose the names could be reused. I can't imagine what the reaction would be if they renamed Fort Benning down in Georgia to Fort Sherman, however.

I guess I don't understand why a small minority of "unwoke" thought it was a good idea to name stuff after historical Americans who did their best, and in the end, failed to wreck the country. Their attempt resulted in, among other things, something like 3/4 of a million deaths and untold cost in suffering, money and resources.

As a gamer I find it very interesting to play either side in ACW games. I love reading about the war, its beginning and its aftermath. As a citizen I'm just confused about how a small minority can keep chipping away at this country over 150 years after the "big failure".

Guys your locking on to the Confederacy. This movement goes far beyond that. That was just the starting point of this rename and correction Hysteria, there are other threads on TMP dealing with this, the latest being the renaming of Daniel Boone elementary school, because old Daniel at one time owned 7 slaves. Statues of Teddy Roosevelt being forced to be moved. There were people in my area demanding that the Dixie Highway name be changed.

35thOVI, are you making the point of where does it end? If that is the case then I have to wonder the same.

@Big Red Yes, exactly.

Initially when the whole renaming started long before the base changes, it sounded reasonable. But there is no end to the demands now. You bring down one flag, They want 10 more. You bring down one statue they want 20 more. There is no end to the demands, which leads one to believe that the name change really isn't the issue, there is an agenda involved.

"Destruction of Western Civilization" ! Oh my!
I always smile when I read about the 'erasing of our history', or some such phrase. I wonder about how many thousands of words have been written about these historical persons, and how easily I can gain access to them.
I'll awaken my outrage when these books start to be removed.

I think the real problem with the Confederate flag (actually, the battleflag) is not that it represents the Confederate government/army but that it represents post-war racist repression, from Jim Crow to the KKK.

It was a way to help the healing process in the South.

And never mind if it irritates black Southerners, or white Northerners.

It's a hate campaign, and a power play, and there are no good intentions in it.

We read books on history. Those of us who do, become less and less every day. It's our history. I hope I am wrong and those who disagree with me are right, but I don't think I am.

I had another thought. Who are "they"? What do "they " really want? And most importantly how do we know what they want? It will take a lot more than this to destroy America or it's history. We are just passing through, and their are strong and many rational people on both sides.

Some change is good. But again, I might have left something like the Roosevelt statue and added a plaque about the values and beliefs of the time in which it was sculpted, and how we can see things differently today. Or off to the museum and do the same thing. All of our traditional heroes may have flaws, but they also may have strengths. Seeing them in the context of historical truth is important.

This issue reminds me of the late '90s dystopian novel "The Savaged States of America" by Kevin Beary. In the novel, the Washington Monument is torn down and 'inverted' to resemble a vagina to symbolize the Great Earth Mother.

With all due respect, Tortorella, it doesn't take much to destroy a country when one half believes that the other half is evil, racist, misogynistic, meat-eating, gun-toting, white supremacist wackos. After all, the reason why we teach children history is to teach them to be proud of their country and to strive to be better and respect their fellow citizens. If that history is erased (by whatever means) from the public sphere, then the only ones who will read history books are folks like us – a minority of specialists.

This has already happened in various states as the history requirement has been diluted or taken out completely to make room for more 'woke' subjects – like queer studies and 'tolerance' studies (whatever the hell that is).

On the lighter side, how about renaming Ft. Bragg after pop stars, add some levity to the dourness of the military. I'd love to rename Bragg or Hood after Sir Mixalot of "I like big butts fame" or how about renaming the bases where female recruits are trained in honor of current cultural icons like Megan Thee Stallion – and call them "WAP" centers? [sarcasm mode engaged]

"Historical Truth" is of no value to the Left – either as history or as truth. It is viewed simply as an impediment to the dissemination and legitimization of their "New Politically Correct Belief System".

If you saw "The Matrix" or remember the "Borg" from Star Trek TV, that is what you are dealing with.

B

I guess I don't understand why a small minority of "unwoke" thought it was a good idea to name stuff after historical Americans who did their best, and in the end, failed to wreck the country. Their attempt resulted in, among other things, something like 3/4 of a million deaths and untold cost in suffering, money and resources.

Exactly.

Some change is good. But again, I might have left something like the Roosevelt statue and added a plaque about the values and beliefs of the time in which it was sculpted, and how we can see things differently today. Or off to the museum and do the same thing. All of our traditional heroes may have flaws, but they also may have strengths. Seeing them in the context of historical truth is important.

Agreed.

Also with respect, these perceptions of half the country are too absolute and extreme to be true,IMO, Which half, BTW? I did not think there was that much unity left. A whole nation of demons is not in evidence IMO. I really wanna hear from "them". My guess is it is not a big group. The Left is too disjointed to have an actual plan.

History was diluted long before we were wokened. I knew plenty of folks from the 80s on who did not know who fought in the Civil War, could not find Chicago on a map, thought there were airports in the revolution.

The unwoke system was also an educational shambles,teachers who could not spell, kids who could not read, grade inflation. History was always ignored the most. Superheroes displaced history heroes. I wore my Davy Crockett hat in protest. These were not good times. And this has not improved.

Families fell apart. This is the biggest problem IMO.

And History died from neglect years ago in schools.

Swampking, I have a feeling that I am fortunate not to know who these people are from the pop world. I like big butts is not the road to fame for me. In fact if they don't play guitar, I do not have a clue. How about Fort Les Paul? Fort Strat?

And here we go again!

Lets just give up the pretence and rename this the Anti Woke, Jubilation T. Cornpone Board shall we!

@Tort those wanting this ARE a small group. They play on the Perceived guilt on the left.

@Blut +1 this IS an agenda

Change Fort Bragg to Fort Clarence Thomas. To any conservative individual of any sex or race. Just so we don't name it after anyone from the Woke list of names.

Would they be happy with that? No. Would you who support them be? I would be fine with it.

Trajanus! I am not anti woke. I am somewhere in the middle and not always sure where. I have been there since way before the divisive times made some of us think about more civil war.

I want the forts named after soldiers who did things that inspire people to serve the United States and the principle that all men are created equal. This leaves out Confederates. And statues that clearly run counter to this need to go, but many may better serve the truth by being given some context, either by signs or when moved to museums.

The racism of the lost cause narrative and the Jim Crow movement need to have the light shined on them however we do it. It is not an extremist goal.

But there is a worthy debate to be had about how to depict some of the people who founded this country while owning slaves, or subjugating native people by violence.

This is just the beginning.

We are witnessing the end of a class struggle… with the victors exercising the power won in their victory.

Much more is coming…
Scientism
Meliorism
Hedonism
Globalism

We are following the same path as the old Soviet Union…
though the Hedonism part for them was unobtainable and what little surfaced was quashed by Stalin.

Our path is somewhat peculiar due to our heritage… but that is quickly being buried.

This doesn't end well for us.

Joe Collins

After all, the reason why we teach children history is to teach them to be proud of their country and to strive to be better and respect their fellow citizens.

Well, we USED TO teach history to make the children proud of their country, now we teach it (many places) to make them ashamed of the country. Neither one is a legitimate use of public funds. Teach them the facts. Moralizing and politicizing are not the true purpose of public schools.

I am sorry to realize that so many feel this way. I do not believe that things are quite so extreme and dire, but I respect your opinions.

@Tort There is a large group of us, who see this as more then a series of "individual" issues. We see this in a much larger context and part of a much bigger agenda, of a small, but very vocal minority who also control much of the media and Academia, which makes their views seem like those of the majority.

It's not just history, but the agenda includes words, phrases and how you should think and views you are "allowed" to express.

Hopefully, since I believe this pertains to this agenda as a whole. Look at the controversy
Over the new Florida law, that this small group have successfully and Misleadingly labeled as "don't say gay" with the help of their almost complete control of the media and with the help of certain politicians and many actors. It is a completely wrong depiction of that bill, but for those whose views are determined only by the mainstream, they believe it is 100% true. I include Disney and what they have also done in response to this bill as part of this issue. Completely out of context, but believed to be the view of the majority.

It all comes down to an agenda to completely change our culture, history, words, views, phrases, language and thoughts.

That is why I and I believe others, do not see this as a single issue and attack as such.

There is no one in history whose hands are clean, black, white, red or yellow. All have done bad things.

This is my Country, my Heritage, my ancestors and my beliefs. They may not have always done the right things and did things we might not be proud of today. But they are the ones who did what was necessary to make this country. They labored, fought and died to do that. I will not forget their sacrifices nor let them be forgotten.

I love this, let's roll…
New York City must change it's name, head of finance for shipping of slave trade, Democrat stronghold during the Civil War and site of riots in July 1863 where Blacks were hung.
Say good bye New York….I hate that name.

@john well of course! That goes without saying. I too have watched "Gangs of New York". 😉 opps sorry, New <to be determined> 😂

I'm not anti woke

Tort,

Never imagined you were and indeed your comments in this post are pretty much in line with mine. The real problems for all of us come from generalised labels which acquire the level of abuse or condemnation.

There is no such thing as Woke it's a label of convenience to cover all manner of views with which others disagree. Some of them are verging on the ridiculous and lend credence that undermines more genuine concerns.

There are plenty out there who use Socialism as a dirty word to describe actions and political views within the US that in Europe would barely qualify as left of centre or moderate Conservative. Let alone Woke

I've read FDR described as Traitor who set the Country on the downward spiral to a Socialist doom with the New Deal. Seems to me that's taken a long time to happen!

Was he Woke?

Everything has degrees of opinion attached to it and all history needs explanation there will be differences as a result.

Somethings are just a fact.

1. Did John Bell Hood fight for the Confederacy – Yes

2. Did the Confederacy support Slavery – Yes

3. Have many Americans trained at Fort Hood served and died for their country – Yes

Are 1 & 2 changed by calling it Fort Killeen – No but neither is number 3

The term Woke wasn't made up by conservatives to disparage progressives, it was made up by people who ascribe to certain ideals to prove their own superiority.
Social Justice Warrior was made up by conservatives as a term of disparagement. Virtue Signaling also.

"The real problems for all of us come from generalised labels which acquire the level of abuse or condemnation."

Yes, I recently discovered that I am, by definition, a cisgender white supremacist racist oppressor.

Who knew? Can anyone instruct as to where I must now go to perform the necessary penance.

Wake up to the con, folks.

B

Eat at Chad's.

link

Nice list. Wonder if they Return the money to the benefactors or the benefactors ancestors who donated all that money to build them, for instance Marge Schott. If they are truly so offended and it weighs so heavily on their Conscience, they should tear them down. Leave no brick standing!

But wait…. They are not that offended!! Being that offended, would actually cost THEM money. 😂 we can't go that far.

@Traj as stated, woke was not started by the right.

Surprise! I am not a fan of FDR or his wife. Nor His mistress for that matter.

Labels are not limited to the right using them. Catch these gems uttered by the daughter of an ex Presidential candidate on "The View", and hosts too.

Wow I did not know all Republicans were "Insurrectionist, traitors and white supremacist". I am glad she and the hosts could enlighten me.

link

All Republicans? Was that said?

On the other hand, given the two party system, if Insurrectionists and White Supremacists do actually vote, I would scarcely imagine them voting in support of those deadly left wing candidates on the other side.

Or maybe they all write in None Of The Above?

On "The View"? I'd bank on it. You ever watch any of that show? If I work out early, some of the women have it on. I saw 2 of them get in a fight, when one tried to change the channel. I now take my earphones and listen to sports talk. 10 minutes of that show and the Ukrainian front would seem pleasant.

Ok if Republicans have to take those groups, then Democrats get Anarchists, Communist, Socialist, BLM, Antifa and 80% of the prison population (those not Insurrectionist or white supremacist). Of course they already have all the dead.
Sound fair? 😉

I do not seen extremist behavior in my everyday life. I have modest means, but I feel fortunate. I know many good people. I have not met any socialists, even though most of my tax dollars go to help other states. Kind of like in socialist countries.

I am not being swept up by isms. Most of the people in prison who deserve to be there don't know or care anything about politics. It is hard to stay objective with all the yelling.and the daily dose of blame and doom arriving from media fear factories. That's also where the plague of labels and name calling comes from. That's the con. Beware of news people who start a story with "Some are saying…"

Tortorella +1 to that.

Living with it day by day it's hard to realise the volume of news media in US dwarfs anywhere else. Not just the number of mainstream broadcasters but all the local news media on radio and TV.

If you then add to that all the Internet, Cable and Social Media outlets for conflicting views and opinions (yes guys we are doing it right here, right now) and it's no wonder distortion happens and outrage flows.

Everyone has a view, everyone is a critic, everyone is right and everyone gets a shot at telling you exactly why 24/7.