"Ukraine Invasion: Russian Equipment?" Topic

The majority of the footage I've seen of Russian equipment appears to be older: MT-LBs, T-72s, AA on truck beds, etc. Even alot of the small arms look to be older.

I haven't seen much footage of BMP-2s, BTR-80s or any T-90s. Maybe others have but it's escaped my eyes.

Have the units with more modern equipment been kept in reserve? If it was supposed to be a quick war, wouldn't using your better equipped units have made more sense? I'm just confused by seeing so much older gear in combat. Any insight is appreciated.

The original reports I saw said that the Russians were going in initially with their best, professional troops.

Latest reports say they sent in conscripts (in some cases, forced to enroll as professional soldiers), using some badly maintained equipment. (The Ukrainians are saying their equipment is better!)

Some ex-military people have commented that the Russian plan was unusually complex.

Also, too many anecdotes of Russians trying to seize territory by helicopter assault without air cover.

My assumption and I could be wrong is that Russia thought they'd role easily and used lower quality units. Held the best back as insurance in case things get even more tense with NATO

Can't believe how many MTLBs I've seen.

So far no:
Btr-80s,
Bmp-2 or 3,
T-90s or T-14s.

I have seen about 2 batteries worth of TOS-1s. Hope they don't use those on cities like they did in Chechnya.

My assumption and I could be wrong is that Russia thought they'd role easily and used lower quality units. Held the best back as insurance in case things get even more tense with NATO

That would explain a few things that have been reported in the media. Though it may have been a false economy if you then have to send your better units into nasty urban warfare meat grinders, which can be no respecter of training and equipment.

Maybe it's a strategy from Russian army to get new stuffs and get ride of the old one (and as they don't really care about loosing soldier). Because between the tank destroyed because the ran out of gas, and the one that are stuck in the mud, it doesn't project the image of a very competent army.

Ukrainian defense ministry has announced their estimates of Russian personnel and material losses, which seem rather heavy (though likely over-estimated, as usually happens in the confusion of war). This does not include much detail about the particular equipment, except for the 1 Buk AA-missile system and 4 Grad MRLS sets.

Not so sure, might even be low, if its lower quality troops blundering into clearly well-motivated Ukrainian forces operating as light infantry with anti-tank weapons and the odd AFV / tank in support. Particularly if the the infantry haven't debussed. Also seen an article saying that Ukrainians have stopped an amphibious landing. No real detail though. I'd imagine that would be potentially very costly if correct.

In the past normally the red army send its more modern weapons/systems to their ME allies, such as when send T72s to Syria in early '80s.Normally Warsaw Pact's troops weren't equipped with the more modern armaments, to avoid "problems". Now seems that their most advanced tanks are in reserve, perhaps they tought of this war as a steamroller, without the necessity to deploy elites, or perhaps there are "some" problems with the new stuff, such as the T14, never seen in action, but only in parades.

In addition to the Russian troops, the troops of the DPR and LPR take the most active part in the battles. Moreover, it is they who break through the Ukrainian defense around the unrecognized territories, which was created for 8 years. These troops have a large number of obsolete and captured Ukrainian equipment, uniforms of obsolete models.
You can distinguish Russian equipment by the identification marks "Z", "V", a circle and a triangle. As I understand it, such signs denote groups that have different tasks. The Russian army uses the "Ratnik" uniform in pixelated camouflage (except for special forces units).
Obsolete weapons can used in the second echelon troops. Tanks "Armata" are not used in combat.
I do not recommend believing official statements about the battles and losses of either side. Propaganda is now operating at full capacity on both sides of the front. I personally saw a video where the destroyed Ukrainian equipment is presented as a destroyed Russian convoy. But the characteristic pixel camouflage and the BMP-1 clearly indicate that these are the losses of the Ukrainian army. However, in many places there really are serious battles, which is confirmed by the video from the scene.

There is no complicated plan – the main Ukrainian group, which stood on the borders of the unrecognized republics, is being surrounded and cut off from the rest of the country along the line of the Dnieper River. Large cities are not stormed, with the exception of some, but are blocked. The assault will be carried out by the troops of the Russian Guard (National Guard). Yesterday, 10,000 Chechen soldiers were sent from Chechnya for these purposes, who have excellent experience in fighting in urban conditions (ironically, they acquired in the fight against Russian troops).
Kyiv is practically surrounded and in the near future, probably, its assault will begin.

Here are some videos from the scene, for those who are interested:
link

The majority of the footage I've seen of Russian equipment appears to be older: MT-LBs, T-72s, AA on truck beds, etc. Even alot of the small arms look to be older.

I haven't seen much footage of BMP-2s, BTR-80s or any T-90s. Maybe others have but it's escaped my eyes.

It appears they are using many older systems. E.g. BM-21 MLRS, MTLB APCs, versions of the T-72 tank and BMP2 and some BMP3 IFVs, BTR APCs Mi8 and Ka-52 helicopters. Most of those systems were being used when I was on active duty '79-'90 in the US ARMY as an Infantry Officer.

I don't think the Russians thought the Ukrainians would fight as hard as they are. As in 2014 Putin took the Crimea & Donbas region with minimal losses, or less … AFAIK.

So far no:
Btr-80s,
Bmp-2 or 3,
T-90s or T-14s.

As I said I think they are keeping the newer most high tech weapons for another day/war. The Ukrainians should not have been such a challenge. But Putin's intel and beliefs were very wrong … The Ukrainians are using many older Russian weapons system. But the US Javelins & Stingers caused some losses to the Russians. The Javelin has a 2 mile range. Wish we had those when I was Rifle Plt Ldr and later as an M113 Mech Co. Cdr. Far superior to the M-47 Dragon we were packing!

The reports I saw and some footage did appear to show some BMP2s & 3s, but I don't know their numbers. Verses MTLBs or even BTRs …

Note the Ukrainians are using mostly Russian designed equipment albeit it older in most cases. E.g. IIRC, the S300 ADA system. Which reports have said shot down a few Russian aircraft.

I have seen about 2 batteries worth of TOS-1s. Hope they don't use those on cities like they did in Chechnya.

The TOS-1s being used/deployed, if e.g., Kyiv is surrounded. This will "rain havoc", causing high losses & CD. From and MSN report :

The TOS-1, nicknamed the "Buratino" – the Russian version of Pinocchio – for its big nose, is one of the most feared weapons systems in Russia's conventional armoury, a multiple launch rocket system mounted on the chassis of a T-72 tank capable of firing thermobaric rockets which use oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion.

Maybe it's a strategy from Russian army to get new stuffs and get ride of the old one (and as they don't really care about loosing soldier). Because between the tank destroyed because the ran out of gas, and the one that are stuck in the mud, it doesn't project the image of a very competent army.

Agreed … for all the reasons I stated & more.

Some ex-military people have commented that the Russian plan was unusually complex.

Very much so. Attacking from 4 axis many miles apart created a logistics challenge. Log was never their strong suit. As we see with many MBTs, etc., abandoned because they ran out of petrol or broke down with no repair parts.

Also, too many anecdotes of Russians trying to seize territory by helicopter assault without air cover.

They seem to not have learned the lessons the USA learned in Vietnam, etc. You have to suppress the air routes the helicopters are taking with CAS and/or FA. On known or likely locations. Called SEADs -Suppression of Enemy Air Defense Systems.

As well as prep the LZs with CAS/FA to suppress any enemy forces with that firepower. We use AH-1s and later AH-64s Gunships to fly shot gun in front and on the flanks of the main lifts. To add their firepower to suppress the enemy if need be. Even after SEADAs. The Russian Mi-8 assault ships do pack rocket on hard points on both sides of the fuselage. That may not be enough. If they even loaded those hardpoint weapons ?

Again I think they underestimated the Ukrainians. And if they lost old Mi-8s and some troops. Putin really did care. They are expendable, seems to be their SOP.

Valid comment above about destroyed Ukrainian equipment mis-identified as Russian (naturally vice versa may also apply).

On another note, I do have an impression that many Russian units were originally sent for winter manoeuvres in the vicinity of Ukrainian borders for the purpose of applying psychological pressure for negotiations. For such purposes, mediocre equipment is probably as effective as top of the line. Though in this case, the psychological pressure did not get the Russian leadership whatever they were looking for (rather the opposite).

Valid comment above about destroyed Ukrainian equipment mis-identified as Russian (naturally vice versa may also apply).

I saw the Russians marking some of their vehicles with large "Zs" to help with ID. The US & NATO in Iraq did similar with "Vs", plus VS-17 panels. And later high-tech plastic panels for night ops, etc. Can be seen using NVDs.

Also saw Ukrainians using yellow or blue tape of cloth bands(?) on their arms/biceps to help ID them from the Russians.

Ukrainian borders for the purpose of applying psychological pressure for negotiations. For such purposes, mediocre equipment is probably as effective as top of the line. Though in this case, the psychological pressure did not get the Russian leadership whatever they were looking for (rather the opposite).

Again Putin and his intel underestimated the Ukrainians. Failure of intel or leaders not listening to their intel or military advisors can be very costly. E.g. The US leaving A'stan from Kabul, etc.

The Russian seem to have limited if any GPS down at the troops level unlike the US and much of NATO. Hence we see some Russian units getting lost, then running out of fuel, etc. Reports of some Russian troops even asking directions from the Ukrainians.

They also appear to have limited NVDs. They don't "own the night". IIRC the US/NATO supplied the Ukrainians with some NVDs of all types. They have NVDs, Javelins & Stingers … giving them an edge. Plus their motivation to defend their homeland. Will it be enough to stop the Russian numbers in the long run ?

The evaluation of Russian's "vaunted" Spec Forces and Paras, were they were sloppy and lacked a number of soldier/combat skills to be effective.

Bear in mind that a lot of the footage purporting to be from the last couple of days is older. In some cases a LOT older. Some of it is from years ago in Syria, for example!

Taken 7 hours ago. LPR militia prepare to attack the positions of Ukrainian troops. Technique and uniform – the old model. The letter Z in a circle or just a white circle is used as a quick identification. Red scotch tape on uniform.

youtu.be/n2R1Xr3fVVw

Bear in mind that a lot of the footage purporting to be from the last couple of days is older. In some cases a LOT older. Some of it is from years ago in Syria, for example!

Yes that is "stock footage". The media knows most of its viewer can't tell the difference. Fortunately, many here including you, myself, etc., can tell the difference. 😎

Technique and uniform – the old model. The letter Z in a circle or just a white circle is used as a quick identification. Red scotch tape on uniform.

Yes .. good intel … Cuprum ! As we were told, "Friendly Fire ain't !

Chechen assault units are sent to Ukraine:

YouTube link

I had heard that could/would happen. The Chechens are noted to be very "effective/brutal"(?).

As well as Belarus used some of their air assault troops landing near Kyiv(?)

Chechens are good soldiers. In addition, they have a very rich experience of participating in hostilities, both as rebels against regular troops, and in counterguerrilla warfare. Shown here are units of the National Guard and the rapid reaction police forces. And yes – they are considered quite tough on the enemy.

As for the participation of Belarusian troops in the war, I have not yet seen sufficiently reliable evidence.

link

Take a look at the picture top right. The direct link is dead for some reason.

Well that didn't work. It was a picture of BTR-80s coming off an amphibious landing ship.

Well that didn't work. It was a picture of BTR-80s coming off an amphibious landing ship.

Maybe this will work. Different link:

link

Good intel Cuprum … thanks …

It seems that the Russians cannot coordinate all needed sub parts to be an truly effective fighting force. Infantry, armor, artillery, special forces, air support and logistics.

Attacks go in without proper fire support, lightly armed troops enter citys without support, air assaults without proper pre bombardment, troops getting lost, units that have to forage for food and fuel. Wounded Russian soldiers being transported to Ukrainian hospitals. Very low morale in some units. Convoys bunching together and then hit by artillery,

Why cannot the Russians "get their sXXt together"? how come they cannot master the logistics? why do troops get completely lost? why do "special forces" enter citys without follow on units?

In one case OMON troops drove straight into Kyiev and were wiped out, they had no idea the city was not already occupied.

Clearly the invasion is not going well. That the Ukrainians are winning the media/propaganda battle is obvious.

It seems that the Russians cannot coordinate all needed sub parts to be an truly effective fighting force. Infantry, armor, artillery, special forces, air support and logistics.

Yes, that seem to get clearer as this invasion goes on. It may cause them to lose this war. But they do have numbers & firepower, if they can coordinate it properly. Poor logistics will kill you along with enemy fires.

How can a TB-2 destroy BUKs in convoy? It's strange that AA assets can move without proper cover… Is it overconfidence?
I was already surprised how effective they were in Armenia, but it seems that they can still be used against Russian.

Please explain to me why the Chechen soldiers would fight FOR the Russians. The Russians treat them as Untermenschen. Why wouldn't they get to the Ukraine and then turn their weapons on the Russians. I mean if my country had been brutalized by another, it is what I would do. I sure as H#ll wouldn't try hard.

great Patton. that is a good example of my thesis, Russians cannot fight wars. they do not coordinate, the fxxk up basic military rules and axioms.

Numbers and firepower does not matter if the logistics is not there, and it is not. Gas, food and ammo must be delivered to the correct place and time but for some reason the Russians can't coordinate that.

I believe it is the fault of communism, you only do EXACTLY what you are ordered to do, nothing else. And you NEVER take initiatives. You don't ask questions or try to do things in a better way, you just follow order and keep your head down.

When it comes to the Chechens, Their president, Kadyrov was appointed by Putin so either he felt he needed to help or was/is forced to help.

For Putin I would say it is an win-win-win situation. He gets extremely tough and competent troops, they are not Russians so their lives do not matter at all(no upset Russians if losses are huge). And for each Chechen that dies Kadyrov has one less soldier IF he would try to challenge Putin.

I too am surprised to see so many MTLBs in use. I thought they were primarily for towing A/T guns and heavy mortars, as well as perhaps serving as engineering and supply vehicles.

The large objects on their rear puzzled me at first, but now I'm thinking perhaps they are snorkels for wading, since apparently there are a number of large streams and rivers that need to be crossed.

Anyone know what the main types of tanks they are fielding in their battles are, for both sides?

IIRC, Ukrainians have a predominance of T-64 models, with perhaps some T-72s and T-80s.

In the past the Russians and their allies (guerrillas in
Donbass) were mainly using T-72 variants, with perhaps some T-80s too. Many have ERA and have been able to shake off one or more ATGM, and/or RPG attacks based upon footage I've seen of that from years ago.

I checked Wiki and it seems that a lot more T-90s than I would have thought have been produced (around 7,000 – 8,000 which really surprised me, if true), but the Russians seem to only have about 500 or so of them, in total, again, if the stats are correct. Supposedly, some/many are being kept in reserve – mothballed.

It is very interesting to see such old kit being used in the first waves, though this is a valid, and predicted tactic to do recon with, and to identify opponents. Use them as cannon fodder to soak up first strikes, and then use their better equipment to come in an attack again in follow-on waves.

This was predicted for the air war, back during the Cold War, when that was going on too. Use the older craft to engage and soak up the first waves of AAMs and SAMs, then bring in the better aircraft to mop up when the enemy is low on top line aircraft and missiles.

I'm surprised to hear that the air superiority has not been gained by the Russians, given so many attacks on the various Ukrainian airbases. I haven't heard of any air battles or engagements to speak of, other than "the Ghost of Kiev" rumor, and the losses of the Mi attack helos shot down near Kiev's airport, and the downing of a couple of IL-76s with paratroopers in those.

It clearly seems the Russians don't know how to support and protect these air assaults very well.

Not sure if the Mi helos were Mi-8s, or Mi-17s, so would like to know more about that. Also don't know if the helos and cargo planes were downed by Ukrainian jets of AA/SAM fire, so would like to know more about that too.

Apparently, naval infantry have landed in the southern portion of the country, and that Mariupol is still under attack, but holding out. Rumor had it yesterday that the Russians had taken it.

Apparently, Kharkiv is under siege now, but hasn't fallen yet.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Russians make a more concerted play to attack and surround Lviv too soon, in order to try to interdict weapons shipments from NATO into the country, since I doubt those can now be safely flown in.

Thresher, et al: I've been followed jf this Twitter page for identification of various equipment seen in the conflict: mobile.twitter.com/UAWeapons

I've seen T64s for Ukraine forces and mostly T72s (B and abV variants IIRC) and some T-80s and T-90s for Russians. Early on it was mostly MT-LBs but now some BTR80s, BMP2s, TIGRs and even some BMDs.

Saw some images of a supposed Russian supply convoy comprising of civilian trucks. If true, it underscores the logistic headaches being encountered.

I've seen T64s for Ukraine forces and mostly T72s (B and abV variants IIRC) and some T-80s and T-90s for Russians. Early on it was mostly MT-LBs but now some BTR80s, BMP2s, TIGRs and even some BMDs.

That is similar to what I saw/read. The BDMs are normally with their Paratroops.

Saw some images of a supposed Russian supply convoy comprising of civilian trucks. If true, it underscores the logistic headaches being encountered.

That is one of their weaknesses – logistics.

"Amateurs study tactics … Professionals study Logistics", as the saying goes.

Ukrainian Army equipment- link

When it comes to the Chechens, Their president, Kadyrov was appointed by Putin so either he felt he needed to help or was/is forced to help.

That makes sense … Putin is a gangster … someday he will call you for a favor …

Don't believe everything you see and hear. Lots of propaganda and fake news.
In Kyiv, weapons were distributed to everyone. Imagine what it is like to have an armed mob without any control and spy mania… I would imagine that a huge number of shootouts take place between various Ukrainian groups, police and soldiers. Especially at night.

In the famous video, when the Strela-M self-propelled anti-aircraft gun crushes a civilian vehicle, it is very likely a Ukrainian anti-aircraft gun. There are no Russian identification marks on it. And she is alone – in the middle of the enemy capital? This is highly unrealistic. It's more like some Ukrainian soldier went crazy… Here's another video about her:
youtu.be/bVssfjgc7dw

The Russian army is prohibited from launching air and artillery strikes on residential areas in order to minimize civilian casualties.

No one in Russia treats another people as Untermensch. It's a lie.
Chechens live in teips (something like tribal unions). And most of them support Russia. Although Kadyrov, the current leader of Chechnya, himself fought against Russia for many years, like his father – and now he is Putin's best friend. Do not expect them to defect to Ukraine – Chechen volunteers have been fighting in the Donbas since 2014 and there has not been a single case of defection to the enemy.

There is not a single video of downed IL-76s. While there is no evidence – it's just propaganda. Do you remember the story about the dead Ukrainian border guards from Snake Island? Yesterday, 89 border guards from this island who had surrendered were shown on Crimean television.

Mariupol under siege. He is defended by the Nazis from the Azov Regiment (this regiment is equal in number to a brigade or even a division). They are not likely to give up. But they no longer stand a chance.

There are street fights in Kharkov.

The Russian army is prohibited from launching air and artillery strikes on residential areas in order to minimize civilian casualties.

Some reports in the media that Russians as of today are bombarding residential areas. Maybe they are going 'scorched earth' out of desperation.

I am wondering how hard the Russian troops are trying. Seems many are unmotivated. Perhaps not mutinous, but not willing to stick their necks out to get killed.

Interesting 'leak' today (or deliberate misinformation) that the Russians will run out of munitions after 10 days, due to underfunding of the military.

Nice to see the world uniting against Putin.

I do not see any recorded massive artillery, rocket or bomb attacks on civilian targets. But "stray" (random) shells and bombs will certainly find their victims. In addition, Ukrainians often place military equipment in residential areas, which, in the event of opening fire, will inevitably lead to retaliatory strikes on this territory.

youtu.be/d0sQwoTHiXM

Run out of ammunition? The warehouses of the USSR, prepared for the Third World War, are still preserved. I can still believe that stocks for the latest types of weapons may run out, but for those that use Soviet designs, it is unbelievable.

In addition, Ukrainians often place military equipment in residential areas, which, in the event of opening fire, will inevitably lead to retaliatory strikes on this territory.

Maybe you shouldn't be attacking another country, then?

I love the story of the Ukrainian grandmother who told the Russian soldiers to put sunflower seeds in their pockets, so at least something will grow when they die.

I expect that when Ukraine wins the war, they will be welcomed into NATO.

I am against this war. But I think that it is not fair to lay the responsibility for what happened only on Russia. Politicians in many countries bear their share of responsibility for this conflict.
However, I don't want to discuss politics. I don't want to justify the war. And participate in someone's propaganda.

I will speak only about facts and events that I personally know about.

I don't think Ukraine will win a real war. But propaganda war – no doubt.

I am against this war. But I think that it is not fair to lay the responsibility for what happened only on Russia.

Yeah, the ‘look at what she was wearing' defense.

The responsibility only lay on the invader especially when you were not attacked. That's valid for Russia in Ukraine, but also the US in Iraq…

Multiple launch rocket system "Cheburashka" near Mariupol. An interesting weapon – it is designed and manufactured in the Donetsk People's Republic. It is built on the basis of the Ukrainian truck "KrAZ", has 64 guides for 217-mm rockets with a declared range of up to 9600 meters.

YouTube link

A video with samples of rocket weapons produced in the Donetsk People's Republic and now used in the war by the DPR militia.

youtu.be/IvcrhNdJ3Ls

I agree to keep politics out. I just watched a short clip of a grad (or equivalent) strike against a residential area. I do not believe it is by mistake.

This war IS politics. Without politics there is no war in Ukraine. This is one of the easiest wars in history to attribute directly to politics.

Be honest, if your Russian, do you feel safe going to sleep at night with Vlad as your leader? Also knowing he has your Nuclear arms on the highest level status. Also knowing many all around the world believe he has shown signs of instability. Also knowing he is a dictator with almost no controls on his decisions?

Do you feel safe answering this question truthfully with others there watching the net?

I will help you. I don't feel safe with our top 2 leaders and their decision making capabilities. I would give the reasons, but I would be doghoused, but they are valid and some based on personal observations based on my family member and comparison.

Caprum2 here you go, an alternative view, I found one on what some would claim is a right wing website.

Subject: What is Really Going on in Ukraine? An Alternative Scenario


link

IMO … Putin was the aggressor … for all of the reasons mentioned before here and on other threads. I'm not the only one, so does most of the world. And I do know many in Russia are against this war. Putin & his supporters are the "bad guys" and should be held accountable by the World Court, etc.

Regardless, there will be no "next one". This attack has revitalized NATO. Woke up many NATO nations to upgrade their militaries, etc. This is just the opposite of what Putin wanted.

Intel, etc., says Putin has become "unhinged, delusional, paranoid", etc. Or he just underestimated the entire situation:

The Ukrainians are fighting very well all things considered.

Our Javelins & Stingers are very good at what they are designed to do.

The Russian Army is generally poorly trained, lacks many basic soldier and combined unit skills. Most are very poorly motivated. They don't even know why they are there some say.

Appears to lack enough if any GPS and NVDs. Some units got lost. Plus, they generally do limited to no night movements/ops.

Their logistics is sorely lacking. Demonstrated by many of the vehicles being abandoned. Log has never been their strongpoint. Today with highly mechanized, motorized, etc. equipment. Running out of fuel, repair parts, etc., is very amateurish.

Even if Putin "wins" in the Ukraine, and most believe the Russians will. As they have numbers and firepower. Even if they don't effectively coordinate, demonstrate poor combined arms skills, etc. Numbers will always be telling.

The Ukrainians will eventually run out of ammo, supplies and bodies, etc.

Regardless … this will be Putin's "last stand". He will never do this type of action again. Especially with NATO nations. Some nations like Finland & Sweden will join NATO. Putin wanted to break up NATO … he is doing just the opposite …

Hopefully the US gov't will see they need to get non-warfighter training out of the military. Combat readiness is critical and anything that does not contribute to it is a waste of time and money. The elected & appointed official need to get that. Climate change is not a priority vs. real world threats.

God I hope they read that last paragraph Legion, but honestly, so far they seem deaf to it. 😢

I doubt they will listen to anything that does not have Go Green, get off oil, etc., … if I say more I'll be Dh'd …

soledad, check out the video I posted earlier. There, Ukrainian MLRS are in combat position right on the streets of Kharkov. If they open fire, they will immediately be hit back. Such is the war. Ukrainian troops are also shelling their cities with artillery in order to destroy the Russian troops stationed in them.

Ukrainian citizens are trying to drive Ukrainian soldiers with their armored personnel carriers from their homes:

YouTube link

As for the morale of Russian soldiers… A captive Russian soldier who, under threat of being shot, is required to say to the camera: "Glory to Ukraine!" says: "Glory to Russia"!

YouTube link

Good pics !

Russian column destroyed in the city of Bucha near Kiev by Ukrainian artillery fire. Look what happened to the houses of civilians. Certainly there are civilian casualties. This is war.

youtu.be/9veVWs5uIeg

link