"Rules for 28mm Polish Renaissance" Topic

Many years ago I was inspired by the fan supplement The Deluge for Warhammer ECW and so collected and painted a decent sized Polish army ( 72 polish foot, 48 cossack foot, 40 Cossack horse, 80 Polish Horse) . I managed to locate a local player with an ECW army and we have been trying to find a set of rules. However, we seem to struggling to find something which will give a fast, fun and flavoursome game.

Previously we played Black Powder but never got in with the command system or the game in general so Pikke and Shotte is out of the window. Neither of us wants to try For King and Parliament. As far as we are concerned DBR stands for Deadly Boring Rubbish and FOG: R does not appeal.

The ideal rule set is probably By Fire and Sword however, the rules are designed with 15mm in mind and my experiments last year led me to conclude that in 28mm you ate limited to small armies. Does a suitable rule set exist?

Is Gush " fast"

I suggest the Carnage and Glory Pike and Shot Computer Moderated rules…they include National characteristics that allow you to field Poles, Russians, Swedes and Turks.

Why not FK&P? Because of the square? I felt that the squares would not suit me, but was surprised when exactly the opposite occurred. They work really well.

It would be my recommendation.

Try Pikeman's Lament, it's a very good set of rules, join the Facebook group, tons of ideas and house rules to help out.

Hi Legend of Doom,

It can be very frustrating when you can't find a ruleset that works for you, and I do realise that rules are very personal things; one person's feast is another's poison.

I am trying to keep a list of rules for this period here that might provide some ideas:
link

Hope you find something that works for you. 👍 (My go to set is Pike & Shotte, but I totally get that not everyone likes that system.)

Legion,

I enjoy By Fire and Sword, but have only played it once with 28mm figs. It worked out fine, but we doubled all measurements and played on a ping pong table. Granted we just had a 180 FP a side game in 15mm which was a blast.

we used to use Gush in the past – I still have my copy and the Army Lists (make me an offer). I seem recall they worked OK, we used to roll a D20 for casualties less than a figure – that eliminated any book-keeping.

Interesting set of responses.

1) I think I'll pass on George Gush – I think the rules may predate my birth

2) Pikemens Lament feels a bit too skirmishy- I played Lion rampant but it seemed a totally random experience devoid of any tactics or skill.

3) thanks for the link Charge the Guns. An excellent resource and very helpful. though I was amused by the following typo

Unit arse activated on a dice roll,[ referring to Gott Mit Uns]

-I did watch games of Baroque being played but it looked like a game of counters and lots of tests. Not played it but it looked unengaging. in Deo Veritas looks like its designed for 10mm scale
I found that Victory Without Quarter looks like the closest thing to what I am after. As its designed for ECW it does not cover many of the cavalry options so I'll have to think about adapting it in some way.

I have some sizable Polish, Cossack and Tatar armies in 28mm for the Cossack Uprising era around 1651.

I used Pike and Shotte at Historicon for a 600 figure recreation of the Battle of Berestechko. We had 8 players and we had a fast moving game that gave a real feel of the period. We had a few custom rules for the cavalry and a few simple mods to the ever unpopular command system. Everyone appeared to have a great time. I really do understand that Pike and Shotte is not everyone's cup of tea. In my opinion, where it does excel is large games with multiple players, where some of the players are not very experienced with the rules.

Here are a couple of photos of the game:

There is more at link

As for by Fire and Sword, we are just starting to play in 28mm. As my figures are individually mounted I had some custom movement trays made by Litko to give three figures per movement tray. The trays are double the size of the 15mm bases used by Fire and Sword. It makes it easy then to double up the distances. We have our first game schedule for a few weeks time.

From an initial look it seems like by Fire and Sword will suitable for smaller scale games in 28mm. My first game I am going to have a task force of about 50 Polish Cavalry figures against a Cossack infantry force. I totally agree with you that it seems that by Fire and Sword may not be good for large 28mm games – but I am still hopeful that it will be fun for smaller scale encounters. For larger scale by Fire and Sword games there are people in out club that have 15mm figures that we will use.

Between these two sets of rules, I am sorted for both large battles and smaller scale games. I have not seen much else out there that takes my interest in terms of rules for this period.

excellent looking game but as I mentioned neither me or my opponent- are looking at playing Pike and shotte.

Also, whilst I take the point that Hail Caesar/Black Powder /P&S are excellent multiplayer games – I have found it extremely difficult to find one opponent let alone 8

Doubling the movement of cavalry in By Fire and Sword would result in movement rates of 40cm/80cm, which for the benefit of the metrically disadvantaged 16"/32". It would give a fast and decisive game over in 2 turns. We found that 20/40cm pr 8/16" worked out well in 28mm as those are the cavalry movement rates for cavalry in warhammer, the only thing which does need to be adjusted is missile ranges.

Legend,

Wasn't there a set of rules from the Pike and shot society called Hussaria which was written to cover Eastern Europe which had a totally different style of warfare compared to the west. I thought the fire and sword guys also planned, not sure if released a big battle variant of their rules?

Legend
Have you heard of/thought about Twilight of Divine Right. I've played it for Thirty Years War and it gives pretty much I want for a big(ish) battle for the period.
link
I haven't yet played Eastern European armies but there is a set of rule modifications for more cavalry based armies here:
link

I just watched some Youtube videos of Twilight of Divine Right- it looked a bit too slow playing for my tastes. I think that finding a ruleset is a bit moot as I have failed to locate player in North EAst London who are interested in playing this period in 28mm. So my figures will return to the closet for the forseeable future

Does anyone know if the Tercios rules have lists for 17th century eastern armies