"Swords & Spells by Gary Gygax" Topic
8 Posts
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altfritz | 25 Jan 2022 8:10 p.m. PST |
Anybody get much mileage from these rules back in the day? I think I tried it once, but I was a kid and didn't really have enough figures to fight a battle with any rules so I don't think I got too far. Anybody give it a whirl? |
Sgt Slag | 25 Jan 2022 8:29 p.m. PST |
I bought the PDF (early 2000's), read them, decided they were too crude, too cumbersome to actually use! The fact that dice are not needed, and that combat is scripted in that you compare forces on each side, consult a table to see how many losses are suffered, without rolling any dice, just left me wondering… Why? Why would I play this? The battle is pretty much done when we commit troops to the field. It is just a matter of looking up the results on the tables and applying said results! I bought a PDF copy of Chainmail (had to ask here what dice to use -- d6 only; polyhedra dice did not yet exist for gaming, anywhere…), Swords & Spells, and a hard copy of 1e BattleSystem, off of e-Bay, all circa 2000's. I began playing 2e BattleSystem around 1992 -- love it! Still playing 2e BS rules. They are fantastic, IMO. I wanted to see the progression and development of the fantasy mini's battle rules, over the nearly 20 years they spanned. The 2e BS rules, however, are the smoothest, and the fastest, most playable, IMO. I admit, I have never played the previous rules sets, only having read them. They are just complex, with loads of bookkeeping, which slows the game down, without adding anything to them for fun and excitement. I just do not see the point of their added complexity. Tracking troop exhaustion may be more 'realistic', but it subtracts from the fun and enjoyment of the game, for me. Bear in mind that I am decidedly a "gamer", not a "simulationist", by any stretch of the mind. I want a game that is fun to play, combat is decisive, and the game moves along at a decent pace. After playig seven Turns, I want things to have moved, progressed, for multiple combats to have been resolved, with clear winners, most of the time. I enjoy Blitzkrieg style of play, not Sitzkrieg (I wonder why I am wasting my time playing in such games). Simulation games strive to be realistic, which means that they can be complex and slow playing. I have played in too many mini's games where, after seven game turns, players have done nothing more than move their troops to within fighting distance of the enemy, but few battles have been engaged in, let alone clearly resolved. Granted, this may have been due to starting distances being too great, but the rules can impact this, as well. Your preferences may vary. Cheers! |
altfritz | 26 Jan 2022 8:33 p.m. PST |
Didn't know there was a 2000 edition. There is a random adjustment in the original book (but it is optional). It allows for a +/- 10% variation. Morale tests also require dice. |
Albus Malum | 26 Jan 2022 10:38 p.m. PST |
I put a long post on this topic here TMP link |
Sgt Slag | 27 Jan 2022 8:23 a.m. PST |
The PDF was purchased, by me, in the early 2000's. It was the same edition, just scanned into PDF format. Sorry for the misleading post. I stand corrected, there are some dice rolls required in Swords & Spells. My main point was how combat was resolved by consulting charts, as the primary method. It seemed like the game hinged upon your tactics, deployment, and your army make-up. The +/- 10% variability, was small. It just left me cold, and not wanting to even try it once. That was disappointing for me. I was excited to give it a try, until I read it. The Chainmail game intrigues me mostly because of its history as the spawning agent for Dungeons & Dragons and the entire RPG industry. The sand table playing method also intrigues me quite a lot. I know they wetted the sand with spray bottles of water, to form it; they then applied spray-paint to color it, after the water had dried. I also realize how brutal the sand was to their painted figures, and how the paint was ground up in the sand, and created quite a mess for those reshaping it before each game, then re-painting it, again… It was more labor-intensive, and far less efficient than modern techniques and approaches. Still, I would love to experience it at least one time. Cheers! |
Albus Malum | 27 Jan 2022 4:16 p.m. PST |
I cant ever see myself making Chainmail or Swords and Spells my go to game, but I do want to try it a few times. Chainmail was always the mystery to me as a teen, as I never actually saw a copy of it, but always wanted to try the "fantasy army" thing as well as the RPG thing. Nowdays, Im wanting to put together a combination of what I veiw to be the best ideas of Battlesystem, battlesystem skirmish, AD&D, and (chainmail/Swords&spells) blending them all to gether, as they were in my view initially ment to be, but never quite realized by most. I now have the miniatures to do it, which back in the day, I didnt as most teens didnt. In anycase, in my opinion, the Ad&D based Battlesystem ect is more versatile to the predominant GW/Warhammer thing, as the D&D based systems are much more open ended, and useable (with work) for fantasy and historical or combining the two, and having the aspect of combining it with the RPG can be done also. If one want to drop a Oytugh onto the battlefield, these systems, its easy, if you want to do such in Warhammer, at the very least, there is going to be a outcry. |
Sgt Slag | 28 Jan 2022 8:51 a.m. PST |
I've done some conversions of non-standard creatures into my 2e BS games. It was actually very easy to follow along in the conversion rules. The 2e BS Skrimish game is really a mini's game with a thin veneer of RPG over the top. It is a great game, for what it is. If you want to go lighter on the RPG, and heavier on the mini's side, with a main focus on combat, it is great. I've played a few games, full mini's, full 3D terrain. It was a blast for what it was. It was ideal for a dungeon crawl, with mini's and full terrain. It is not the same as the RPG, but there is a lot of overlap between the two. My gaming time is limited. When I get a chance to get a group together, I want to ensure that the game is fun for everyone. While I would like to try S&S and Chainmail, I would need to do it solo. Solo gaming is not really that interesting to me. With that said, I focus on 2e BS, for large groups, as that is a blast, for everyone. If I, and my friends, were all retired, maybe we would have the time to pursue other games, to try them out properly. Who knows, maybe in 6-9 years, when I do retire, I might have the bandwidth to explore these games. Cheers! |
YogiBearMinis | 07 Mar 2022 11:02 a.m. PST |
My gaming group has several people who used Chainmail back in the day, then the old WRG sets. No one wants to go back, though they have good memories. |
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