| Thresher01 | 22 Jan 2022 10:58 a.m. PST |
I found this item listed on a TO&E website someone provided as a link, for late-war Panzergrenadier units. It is listed in the 4. Schwerer (Heavy) platoon org, in the HQ for that unit, and the image seems to show a 20mm cannon in a low-profile gun-shield mount, similar to those used for 37mm cannons, or machine guns. In older units, the SdKfz 251/10s had 37mm cannons mounted behind high, or lower-profile gun shields, for the protection of their crews. There was apparently one per platoon of halftracks fielded, and one in the HQ unit (IIRC for the latter). Does or did this vehicle actually exist as an official production model, or perhaps is it an ersatz (custom, field-manufactured design produced by troops in the field) model? You can see the image of it here: link |
| Andy ONeill | 22 Jan 2022 11:05 a.m. PST |
If you look at the writing there it says sdkfz251/17. Which was a standard aa version.
From wiki: Sd.Kfz. 251/17 – Schützenpanzerwagen (2 cm). Anti-aircraft vehicle armed with a 2 cm KwK38 on a pedestal mounting with a small armored turret to protect the gunner. Late war, it was issued as a platoon commander's vehicle to replace the Sd.Kfz. 251/10. |
| Andy ONeill | 22 Jan 2022 11:08 a.m. PST |
There are a load of hits for pictures. The models might give a clearer idea.
link |
| Thresher01 | 22 Jan 2022 11:27 a.m. PST |
Actually, no, the writing for the one in the HQ unit says: mittlerer Schützenpanzerwagen (2cm Flak 38) (Sd.Kfz.251/10) Perhaps the one shown in the HQ unit is the one with the 20mm all-round, armored turret, and is also a 251D/17, and the info from the caption below the image is a typo. Thank you for the reply and link though. |
| Starfury Rider | 22 Jan 2022 11:43 a.m. PST |
It's a typo in the original KStN table, 1114c (gp) of 01 Nov 1943. It does say as quoted above, while all other entries for similar vehicles say (2cm) (Sd.Kfz.251/17) instead. I've seen it before and can't recall if I reckoned they meant 251/10 with 3.7-cm Pak or 251/17 with 2-cm Flak. In the superseding 1114c of 01 Apr 1944 it was only 251/17s. Gary |
| Thresher01 | 22 Jan 2022 11:54 a.m. PST |
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| Hornswoggler | 22 Jan 2022 4:25 p.m. PST |
It's a typo in the original KStN table… That's my recollection. In the version of KStN 1114c (gp) dated 01.11.1943 on Niehorster's site, it is amended and the Schwerer platoon HQ vehicle is listed as 251/17: link |
| Hornswoggler | 22 Jan 2022 4:42 p.m. PST |
Couldn't find the link earlier… "…in the KStN, one of the instances of the 251/17 has originally been written as 251/10, but crossed over and corrected." link |
| Starfury Rider | 23 Jan 2022 6:27 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the clarification. My copy of that version of 1114 is from BA-MA and doesn't have the correction, while the one at NARA does. If I had ever noticed then I'd since forgot! Gary |
 Legion 4   | 23 Jan 2022 10:35 a.m. PST |
Seems they mounted just about anything & everything on that chassis. I liked 75mm AT gun the best. |
