"a minor incursion?" Topic

Did Biden just tell Putin he was okay with a minor incursion into the Ukraine? (today's presser)

Anybody remember Acheson and Korea?

Yes that is how it sounded to me.

White House has already walked that one back.

But will Putin?

If Joe Biden has all these devastating sanctions to use to stop an invasion of Ukraine, how come he has not used them to get Russia out of Crimea? After all, Crimea has been part of Ukraine for two generations.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

The WH "walkback" was still pretty bad.

Even worse if stairs were involved… ;-)

I suspect that there's a lot of stuff happening behind the curtains.

if you put some (not very publicized) facts together the picture might look different from what we're getting from mainstream media.

In summer Ukraine started building up forces near rebel territories, and they started to remove minefields – botb rebel and their own, and this resulted in exchange of fire ans losses on both sides.
At the same time, Ukrainian officials started once again talking how Minsk agreements are not fair and they can't follow them, and their military was claiming that they can solve the problem of breakaway territories in one week.

Then Russia started building forces near the borders, and as I've been writing in summer, it was mainly to eliminate the possibility of attack from Ukrainian side. If you really want to attack Ukraine, isn't it a bit strange to have the forces in the same locations for more than 6 months?

Another interesting story is former Ukrainian president, Poroshenko. There was nothing on him in the Western press for years, he lost the elections to Zelensky and as it normally happens in FSU countries he was accused of treason and left the country.
Then all of a sudden he started meeting top European officials, discussing with them plans to fight off Russian agression, and in the end he returned to Ukraine.
And…unlike former Georgian president Saakashvili, who also returned to his country and got into prison, Kiev court left Poroshenko free.
Poroshenko is considered to be more pro-western and pro-war leader than Zelensky.
As I've said before, I see no reason for Russia to attack mainland Ukraine, especially after giving the opponent half a year to obtain AT weaponry, plant new minefields, etc.

I won't write off sending troops into LNR/DNR, and this might happen if Ukraine will attack them (at the moment it is also not very likely to happen, but if Poroshenko gets the power back things might change) or this attack will be staged (as US was declaring).
Maybe Byden's slip of the tongue happened bcs this situation is actively discussed, and they're developing a response.
Still, I have a feeling that we won't see any kind of intervention.
Of course the situation is much more dangerous than in Kazakhstan, but there was such a hype and doom when 3000 RUssian troopers went there for a week…but Kazakhstan still stands and the troops are back home.

All plausible in theory, but didn't they take the Crimea? Actually more than once?

But than, maybe Vlad's girlfriend has an urge for some good Ukrainian Vodka and he's just planning on sending the boys over for a quick pickup. 😉

Does the Ukraine have good Vodka? 🤔

I'm not too fond of vodka, but I like Russian better than Ukrainian, Polish, or German.
Crimea is exactly an example how we prefer to operate – nobody saw it coming and it even wasn't clear for some time, what happened there exactly.
It works if you have a friendly population, so can work with rebel territory but won't work with Kiev.

So Ukraine does make Vodka? Thought they might. Now I can have Kiev Mules too. 🙂

FYI in case someone does not know, there is a drink called a Moscow Mule, made with vodka and ginger beer, plus some other things. Good drink in the summertime.

I think Nemiroff is the most popular, and they have En version of their site too.
nemiroff.vodka/ua/en/auth

Thanks, but if not sold directly in the states, shipping cost are prohibitive. But good to know.

Once had a bottle of the only peat infused Irish whiskey shipped here and shipping was more than the whiskey. Now it is sold in a few States, like Wisconsin. Don't drink that often, but like having a bottle around if I want a shot.

I love how a conversation can go from a somber discussion of possible international war to a discussion of vodka!

There will be peace in our time. 😉

If only world leaders could do the same. 😂

Maybe a talk over vodka would do them both some good. My money on Vlad drinking Joe under the table.

It was another "slip of the tongue", etc. And was, as usual, "cleaned up" by the Press Sec., which again pretty much is a standard. 'nuff said … we are all in DH territory …

Dateline Orlando

In what the Kremlin characterizes as a "minor incursion" FSB fifth columnists posing as tourists have seized Disneyworld. On-site Sovi…, oops…, Russian operatives have warned, "yenyy addemppt do intervere vit our irredetialist pair'rogadeeves, and de Mouse gets it."

Kremlin spokesmen are claiming that Ponce de Leon was actually from Smolensk, so central Florida is actually a part of the historic motherland. Russia is also claiming 8 city blocks of Joliet, Illinois, on much the same basis.

US response has been muted. An unnamed Senator has suggested handing Forida over in its' entirety would be a national improvement. The Mayor of Chicago has expressed similar sentiments about Joliet, provided we get to keep Byron's Deli on Jefferson.

More as events develop…

Have heard reports the Russians deemed Chicago to be too dangerous. They also turned down free tokens for life on the New York subways. Government currently looking for enough of Portland still intact, to trade for the mouse. All sounds a bit cheesy to me.

Have heard reports the Russians deemed Chicago to be too dangerous.

Well AFAIK it is … Good way to get yourself killed !

Weakness invites aggression, and extreme weakness invites greater aggression.

We are living in dangerous times.

Indeed … very much so …

Ok I read we are ordering families of embassy employees to evacuate and they believe they will encourage Americans in the Ukraine to leave as well on Monday. So things must be escalating since his comment and then attempt to retract and sound tough. He has also ordered small arms ammunition be sent and some has arrived. Not sure what else.

I am sad to see things escalating. I really think it would be in both countries interest to develop a friendship and alliance. The true enemy lies South of Russia. They are more to be feared by both our Countries. They are the enemy we should be concentrating on and honestly, so should Russia. But sadly after the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal and failures everywhere else and by misspeaking in a news conference, the current leader seems to be boxing himself and us into an avoidable corner.

I am sure Putin is also is postering for his own internal benefits as well, wrongly.

Both sides need to get smarter and quickly and see the true enemy. Sadly again, I have little hope for either of them.

Ok I read we are ordering families of embassy employees to evacuate and they believe they will encourage Americans in the Ukraine to leave as well on Monday.

I saw on the news this was going to happen. An e-friend told me this may happen a few days back.

I am sure Putin is also is postering for his own internal benefits as well,

That is a favorite "resort" for Putin, Xi, Iran and Un.

Again IMO … this invasion probably won't happen. But if it does … it will be bloody. No matter how many Javelin AT missiles, etc., we send to Ukraine. However, many a Russian AFV crew will suffer dearly. But in the end Russia has the numbers to carry on.

I agree. Just wish we would realize who the real enemy and the biggest threat to the world is.

Probably the best way to resolve this, is for someone to take out Putin; I can but hope.

I like the Ukrainian honey chilli vodka that my gf gave me, tasty, very tasty

Just wish we would realize who the real enemy and the biggest threat to the world is.

Yes many do … but seems many in the USA Gov't seem not to get it. And the hunt for domestic terrorists, e.g., 6 Jan continues.

"We have met the enemy … and dey is us !" …

Legion, sadly, so very, very true. Monty Python could have thrown a better "insurrection". Reminds me of the different Jewish rebel groups in "Life of Brian".

Yep … I agree … but as we know calling it an insurrection" fits the agenda & narrative of some.

I.e. if you voted for the other party … you are an insurrectionist.

The word is theirs, not mine. Hence the quotes.

I hope things I am reading tonight are speculation. But my fear is a weak leader is showing all the signs of trying to put on the junk yard dog face to the world.

As sorry as I may feel for the Ukrainian people, this is not the place for our line in the sand. In this case, if Europe is concerned, it is time for them to step up to the plate. Actually past time. If Germany, France, Great Britain and the rest are not that concerned, why should we be?

Is this not the first time that the Ukraine has been free from either Russia, or the Soviet Union in over a century?

Meanwhile China launched it largest flight of fighter jets into Taiwan airspace yet. China is the greater threat. Again sadly we made their raise to power all to easy, with all the new manufacturing plants we built there, employing their people, all the money that went into the country. Without having to employ their people and building their own manufacturing, they could turn that wealth all into their military. Not to mention all the espionage we have allowed them. They did not even have to develop the technology.