Editor in Chief Bill | 31 Dec 2021 3:34 p.m. PST |
That's what my VFW calendar says, but I've never heard this before… |
ColCampbell | 31 Dec 2021 3:44 p.m. PST |
That was the date established by the US military as the closeout for any service awards and for veteran benefits. link I came on active duty in May 1973 two years before the "end" of the Vietnam Conflict and even though I never actually served in Southeast Asia I was authorized the National Defense Service Medal. Jim |
Editor in Chief Bill | 31 Dec 2021 3:46 p.m. PST |
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Legion 4 | 31 Dec 2021 4:59 p.m. PST |
+1 ColCampbell All metals have a start & end date … so to speak. |
Dye4minis | 31 Dec 2021 5:48 p.m. PST |
Jim. Because Vietnam was still going on and you entered service while it was an ongoing conflict, everyone who enlisted/drafted were entitled for it. I came in in 1971 and was also EXPECTED to wear the French Croix de Guerre, with palm, Presidential Unit Citation (with one OLC) and AF Outstanding Unit Award (with 2 OLC) as an Airman! I was assigned to the 17th Bomb Wing (Heavy) at Wright Patterson AFB, Ohio. The Doolittle Raiders were from that unit that was also serving in North Africa at the time. And like all great USAF units with such a great history….they deactivated it! |
machinehead | 31 Dec 2021 9:00 p.m. PST |
ColCampbell, same here, I enlisted 11 months before Saigon fell and was authorized to wear that medal too. |
Dagwood | 01 Jan 2022 5:24 a.m. PST |
I always wondered how long serving US servicemen managed to acquire so many medals. So you get the campaign medals without actually going on the campaign ? It all sounds very weird to us British, who have far fewer medals, but all of them mean something significant. |
Cerdic | 01 Jan 2022 5:42 a.m. PST |
Yaay! Everybody's special…! |
Marc33594 | 01 Jan 2022 6:52 a.m. PST |
Dagwood; No, not quite. The National Defense Service Medal is a blanket award given to anyone on active duty during a time of "National Emergency". There have been 4 periods specified for award of the medal. They coincide with the Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War and the current War on Terrorism. There is also the Vietnam Service Medal, for example. I was commissioned March of 1973 and entered active duty January of 1974. As such I received the National Defense Service Medal for being on active duty during the Vietnam period of the award. I also got a cluster indicating second award of the medal for being on active duty during the Gulf War. However I never went to Vietnam so I did NOT qualify of the Vietnam Service Medal. I did go to the Gulf so qualified for that Service Medal. |
Legion 4 | 01 Jan 2022 10:43 a.m. PST |
As I said … metals/ribbons have a start & end date … Dye4 & Marc +1 all of them mean something significant. US metals do too. However, some are awarded based on the specific dates served. Most are awarded for merit or valor[if occurred during combat]. Yaay! Everybody's special…! Yes & no … Like many US Military Vets here, our metals were awarded for doing something specific or important, and/or time served/location, etc. E.g. [comments from award certificates]: 1 ARCOM – Meritorious service in the 101 for 3 years 1 AAM – Exceptional service as Bn Air Ops Ofr in the 101 1 AAM – Exceptional performance running medevac on the DMZ in the ROK 1 MSM – Exceptional meritorious service in the ROK for 22 months w/2 tours on the DMZ Metals for time in service or location … 1 – Armed Forces Reserve metal – 10 years exemplary USAR Service Ribbons : Overseas Service (x2?) & 1 – Army Service 1 Korean Service Defense Metal[rotated out of Korea in '85 … got metal in 2015(?!)]. Some metals are for merit, some for time in service and/or location.
So no there is really nothing "weird", etc., about the US Military awards system … All metals or ribbons were earned by performance or time in service/location. Also seemed Combat Arms Branches received the "lion's share" of metals for merit. |
Legionarius | 01 Jan 2022 11:08 p.m. PST |
Gentlemen, medals please. And. Yes, most medals are made of metal. :) |
Dagwood | 02 Jan 2022 8:47 a.m. PST |
So in the UK forces, you get a campaign medal if you go on a campaign (or possibly a bar to the General Service Medal). There are no medals for time in service, except for VERY long times in service. In the US forces, those who go on campaign get two medals, while those who don't get one medal ? Is that how you get so many medals ? Please note that I am not trying to offend anyone here, I have no medals myself, never having served. I have just been wondering for a long time about how the large number of medals in the US and Russian services were won in relatively few wars. |
Legion 4 | 02 Jan 2022 10:23 a.m. PST |
There are no medals for time in service, except for VERY long times in service. As you see the US Military does things a little differently. No good or bad … just the way it is. We are Yanks … not Brits … In the US forces, those who go on campaign get two medals, while those who don't get one medal ? No sure what you mean ? Is that how you get so many medals ? If you get a second award of the same metal. For a different "event". You get the metal but only put an Oak Leaf Cluster[OLC] on your existing ribbon on your uniform. E.g. I have 2 AAMs but one ribbon with OLC. I don't think e.g. in my case. Having served about 10 + years on active duty + about a year + in the USAR. That I have that many metals/ribbons. 7 on my dress uniform [two I was awarded after I was off active duty.], IIRC. Never put those two on my uniform … No reason. No one would see them on my uniform in a suit bag in the closet. Again I have 2 AAMs but only one with OLC. That is really not that big a number, 5-7 … again for Combat Arms, i.e. Infantry Ofr.
Please note that I am not trying to offend anyone here, I have no medals myself, never having served. Understand, no problem. You are a civilian from a different country, on the outside looking in. Again … Yanks vs. Limeys … I have just been wondering for a long time about how the large number of medals in the US and Russian services were won in relatively few wars. Well it depends on what you mean by few wars. In recent times the US military saw action in 2 Gulf Wars, Somalia, & A'stan. Seems like a lot of wars to me ? I know Vets who have metals from most of those conflicts. Having served in 2-3 of those "wars/conflicts" … Plus there still are many Vietnam, and even less number of Korean War Vets. With even fewer WWII, most are in their late 90s. I want to 2 WWIIs Vets' funerals in one day last summer. 97 & 99 years old … Don't know about why the Russians have so many metals as you believe? However, IIRC, they have a different system and standards. all of them mean something significant. Again as far as I am concerned, my metals did mean something significant. But again, I'm a Yank … Also like many if not all, I[we] didn't do things to get a metal(s). I just did my duty to the best of my abilities … I'll admit in a few cases that was not enough. And of course, You don't join the military to get metals … or make money … for that matter. I my mind … it was the right thing for me to do. |
Bismarck | 02 Jan 2022 12:19 p.m. PST |
Dagwood, Concerning awards for length of service, there are none here in the US. We are awarded service stripes or as we call them "hashmarks" for every 4 years in service. These are diagonal cloth stripes worn on the lower arm of dress uniform blouses(thats USMC for coats). Small bronze service stars are attached to the original ribbon or medal for subsequent additional awards. These would be for campaigns or personal awards. Hope this helps clarify your question. |
Barin1 | 02 Jan 2022 2:01 p.m. PST |
Soviet Union was issuing a number of commemorative medals and even orders to certain jubilee dates for WWII veterans, and some orders and medals that were normally awarded for the fighting were issued just for length of service in postwar years. My grandfather nornally was not wearing them, as he thought that those earned on the battlefield hold more value to him or his friedns than those, given to all participants. There were also medals for the length of service for 10, 15 and 20 years, these were specifically designed to replace "combat" orders and medals, awarded just for length of service, they were also not too popular. |
Legion 4 | 02 Jan 2022 2:20 p.m. PST |
service stripes or as we call them "hashmarks" for every 4 years in service. Yes the same in the Army, but for every 3 years of honorable service. The Army gets similar for every 6 months overseas, called Overseas Bars. Hash Marks are diagonal, Overseas Bars are rectangular … Only Enlisted can wear "Hash Marks/Service Bars and Overseas Bars. Officers can wear the Overseas Bars … I never even had these sown on … Guess I would have had 3 or 4 ? there are none here in the US. Yes & no … I was awarded a metal for 10 years of honorable USAR service. In the old days, not so sure now (?), in the Army Infantry you'd get a Combat Infantryman's Badge after serving in 30 days of combat. The same goes from Medics in combat – the Combat Medic's Badge. To be awarded the Korea Service Defense Metal, you had to serve in the ROK for at least 30 days in country. Starting after 1954 … The Army now also has something similar for the other branches of the Army for serving in combat. IIRC, it's called a "Combat Actions Badge". It's about time ! So the Army is a little different from the USMC and USN … |
Bismarck | 02 Jan 2022 4:24 p.m. PST |
Legion, I have a question for you. Dad served in Europe during WWII. He kept his uniform until his passing. He had one hash mark and several, I don't remember how many, of the overseas bars. These were short length and sewn on horizontally as you mentioned. After his passing we made a shadow box which is now passed on to my son. His old dress Ike jacket had just about lost its battle with time and moths. I always thought they represented 6 months service in a front area or combat zone. Since this is a US Army thing, let me know. To my knowledge the WWII Marines didn't have them. Thanks for that post, because I have always been curious about what the correct answer was for overseas bars. Looking forward to know what is correct. Hope you are well and wishing you a Happy New Year. Sam |
Marc33594 | 03 Jan 2022 6:14 a.m. PST |
Concerning awards for length of service, there are none Not correct. The Air Force has the Air Force Longevity Award ribbon. Ribbon issued after 4 years of honorable service. A bronze oak leaf for each subsequent 4 years and a silver oak leaf to equal 5 oak leaves. But this brings up a point Dagwood. While there is a longevity ribbon there is NO matching medal for it. So you will see it on a row of ribbons but no medal on say the formal mess dress uniform where US military wear their medals, we dont usually on other uniforms. Also most in the US military quickly learn to recognize those awards and medals which really mean something from those more "administrative" awards. For example the longevity ribbon, good conduct ribbon and the like will elicit a yawn. But say a Bronze Star with a "V" device (the the "v" device designates the ribbon and medal awarded for valor in combat) is likely to get noticed. |
Bismarck | 03 Jan 2022 8:46 a.m. PST |
Marc33594, Thanks, I had no idea. Follow up question for you. Does the USAF also issue good conduct medals. The Corps awards good conduct medals for three years service with service stars awarded for subsequent awards. We still have the service stripes for every 4 years service. Again, thanks for the info on the USAF Longevity Award ribbon. I was not aware that it existed! |
Marc33594 | 03 Jan 2022 10:02 a.m. PST |
Yes they do. Similar criteria to the Corps and like the Corps award it is only for enlisted. And for all, just a quick summary. All US military medals have corresponding ribbons but not all ribbons have corresponding medals. |
Legion 4 | 03 Jan 2022 10:10 a.m. PST |
Bismarck, Thank you for your & your Father's service. My Father was an INF SGT in WWII too in the ETO. This may answer your question about your Dad's uniform/service. In the Army, you get 1 Diagonal Hash Mark/Service Bar for every 3 years of honorable service. IIRC it's 4 years for the other Services, e.g. USMC. link The Army gets 1 Rectangular Overseas Bar every 6 months overseas. But does not represent being in a combat zone or front lines. Just 6 months of overseas service for each bar. link
Again Hash Marks/Service Bars are diagonal, Overseas Bars are rectangular … Only Enlisted can wear "Hash Marks"/Service Bars and Overseas Bars. Officers can only wear the Overseas Bars … IIRC the USMC does not get Overseas Bars. Hope that helps. |
Bismarck | 03 Jan 2022 12:54 p.m. PST |
Thanks marc and Legion for the info, particularly learning about the Longevity ribbon and finally finding out about the overseas bars. I think dad had six. Legion, the overseas bars are strictly a US Army award. Never authorized for the Corps. Learned something else new about the USAR medal for 10 years honorable service. Interesting about the Combat Action Badge. The Corps has the Combat Action ribbon, but the requirements are less than the Army's Combat Infantryman's Badge. The CAR is a ribbon only award. Now I have to do some homework looking at award precedence for the other branches of service. Bill, apologies for hijacking your thread! best to all Sam |
Legion 4 | 03 Jan 2022 5:25 p.m. PST |
Glad to help Bismarck. Yes, No Overseas Bar for the USMC … I had 22 Months in the ROK so I think I'd have 3 … but as I said I never had them sewed on. If your Dad had one "Hash Mark" that would be for 3 years of Army Service. And in turn 6 Overseas Bars as each bar is for 6 months overseas. I didn't know about the USAR 10 years of honorable service metal, until I was in the USAR. I bought the metal & ribbon but never wore them. Yes, that Army Combat Action Badge finally gave the other branches an award for serving in combat. Before that it was only the Combat Infantryman's Badge. Plus, the Combat Field Medic's Badge. But Tankers, FA, CEs, MPs, QM, ADA, etc., should get something to for combat action too. I'm glad they finally did this. Of course, I could not get this award if I did serve in active combat. I'd get the Combat Infantryman's Badge[CIB]. I was awarded the Expert Infantryman's Badge, when I was in the 101 … But that is called by the Grunts with the CIB – "a learner's permit". I have to agree ! |