| JPChris56 | 19 Dec 2021 1:51 p.m. PST |
For those who might have an interest, The narrative of an attempt to refight the Battle of Raphia (217 BC) using amended TACTICA II rules can be found here: link
The title of the post is "ANTIOCHUS III vs PTOLEMY IV"
With tidings of comfort and joy to you and yours,
Chris
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| D6 Junkie | 20 Dec 2021 10:58 a.m. PST |
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| Erzherzog Johann | 28 Dec 2021 8:44 p.m. PST |
Interesting. A bit of a shame the glorious Ptolemies didn't win . . . Note: the Greek mercenaries would not have been hoplites. They would probably have been pike armed, given that they were deployed with the Egyptian phalanx. Otherwise, thureophoroi. Cheers,
John |
| JPChris56 | 29 Dec 2021 2:44 a.m. PST |
John –
Thanks for taking the time to read (or wallow through, depending upon one's viewpoint). Perhaps a small measure of comfort or satisfaction might be taken from the fact that the Ptolemaic formations exacted a bit of a price from the Seleucids – at least in this encounter. Your note is well noted. Another reader on another forum has "taken me to task" for my depiction of another contingent as peltasts when they would have been a heavier type. If the engagement is revisited in 2022 (and that's a big IF), I will incorporate these corrections. Thanks again for reading and remarking. Cheers,
Chris |
| Erzherzog Johann | 29 Dec 2021 11:23 p.m. PST |
I certainly wouldn't want to be seen as 'taking you to task'. More just providing a bit of feedback, which others may dispute anyway! I just don't think hoplites are right for 217BC. Only in out of the way places would they still exist. Cheers,
John |
| JJartist | 30 Dec 2021 11:31 a.m. PST |
In Macedonian Successors armies some elite units of pikemen are called peltasts. Obviously this made sense to them, but this has caused lots of confusion for OOB's of the wars from 220's BC to Pydna. Also the Hoplites have been misidentified because a lot of folks (including me for a long time) did not read the detailed sources of these troops as specifically rearmed with pikes. This new work by Paul Johstono, will be having me revise my Raphia OOB's. link |
 oldbob  | 30 Dec 2021 1:18 p.m. PST |
JJ; thanks for the heads up on that book, just ordered it. |
| JPChris56 | 31 Dec 2021 4:35 a.m. PST |
Gents – Coincidentally, I have just started in on a recently received copy of LOST BATTLES, wherein the challenges and difficulties of understanding ancient orders of battles are discussed. I think it is interesting to trace the evolution of refights of Raphia (and other historical battles) from their first publications, such as in issues of Slingshot from the mid 1970s to the most recent efforts of today's historical wargamers. I guess that there will always be debate (hopefully civil!) over the exact nature of the troops present on an ancient battlefield. So, if peltasts and hoplites are misidentified, and all of these contingents were armed with pikes, one wonders about the level of their training, which gets one into a discussion of troop quality as well as the morale classes of such formations. JJ, thanks for the link to the "new" work. I will try and find it through a local library as opposed to incur the expense. It does look interesting. Cheers for the New Year,
Chris |
| oldbob | 03 Jan 2022 1:33 p.m. PST |
I'm hoping we can learn more about the Iphikrates peltasts in this book, all the information I have came from Mr. Head's great book! |
| Erzherzog Johann | 04 Jan 2022 12:13 a.m. PST |
My understanding is that hoplites were long gone as a troop type in anything but peripheral areas to the Hellenistic region. Troops available as mercenaries (as most of these armies were) would have been training with pikes or as peltasts or thureophoroi for at least a generation. The Egyptian phalanx was a recent innovation and most rules treat them as poorer quality. Cheers,
John |
finds his bluff is called!