"Sd.Kfz. 233 "Stummel" and Sd.Kfz. 234/3 "Stummel"." Topic

Hello everyone,

There were differences in frame sizes between the Sd.Kfz. 233 "Stummel" and Sd.Kfz. 234/3 "Stummel"?

Thank you.

I gleaned this information from here:
link
If you go there you will find Tech Specs on both vehicles, including dimensions.
Cheers.

Artillery support version: The Sd.Kfz.233
This late model, called by the Waffenamt the Panzerspähwagen mit 7.5cm StuK L/24, and nicknamed "Stumpy", was closely based on the 231/232 series, but the turret was now replaced by a fixed, open-top barbette, housing a short-barreled 75 mm (2.95 in) KwK 37 L24. This howitzer versio, firing HE shells, was devised in late 1942 by Büssing-Nag, after recce units of the Wehrmacht complained about the lack of self-propelled heavy support in many engagements. Only 109 were built by Schichau between December 1942 and October 1943. They were issued as a platoon of six vehicles in support of reconnaissance battalions. Tactically, they were fast enough to keep the pace of well-advanced reconnaissance columns and provided efficient and fast artillery support when and where it was most needed. Although the gun had a very limited traverse, the complex steering was used at its best by the driver to aim the hull itself quickly and precisely, making this variant a much more capable SPG than the usual tracked vehicles.

Succession: The Sd.Kfz.234
Frequently associated with the "Puma" name, which in fact was only an unofficial nickname of a sub-version, this series counted an entire array of vehicles, based on a brand new chassis, first designed in 1942. The Sonderkraftfahrzeug 234 had a brand new, redesigned hull, a reinforced monocoque chassis, reinforced, which allowed an increase in protection. All came from a wartime specification after the campaigns in Poland, France and early experience in Africa. Bussing-NAG conceived the chassis, but parts and final assembly was performed by three other companies. The 234/1 had a 20 mm (0.79 in) autocannon, but the 234/2 ("Puma") was equipped with a deadly 5 cm (1.97 in) KwK 39 L/60 in a brand new turret. The 234/3 was a SPG, and the 234/4 was a "Pak-Wagen", accomodating a Pak 40 7.5 cm (2.95 in) 46 caliber antitank gun. Only 478 Sd.Kfz.234 were built until March 1945.

So there were differences in frame sizes between the Sd.Kfz. 233 "Stummel" and Sd.Kfz. 234/3 "Stummel"?

As outlined above they are two different machines, each being a variant of an existing armoured car.

The SdKfz 231 was an eight-wheeled armoured car armed with a 2-cm cannon. Vehicle length 5.85m, width 2.2m. The 233 was armed with the 7.5-cm gun instead of the 2-cm cannon.

The SdKfz 234 was the successor of the 231, also armed with a 2-cm cannon. Vehicle length was 6m, width 2.33m. The 234/3 was armed with the 7.5-cm gun in place of the cannon.

I've only checked one book for the dimensions. When you say 'frame size' I'm assuming you're referring to the length and width of the vehicle? The above link has this info and you'll be able to find lots of similar results with a web search no doubt.

Gary

I suggest you search for scale drawings.

link

link

Thank you all, so if I understood correctly, the Sd.Kfz. 233 "Stummel" would have the same frame size as the 8-wheel SdKfz 231 and they would not have the same frame sizes as the Sd.Kfz. 234/3 "Stummel"?

And at the 1/144 th scale that gives us what? The length of my panzer depot Sd.Kfz. 233 "Stummel" is 38 mm maximum!

Using this scale converter, the 1/144 234/3 should be 41.8mm long and the 233 40.6mm long. link

Yes, I am not going to dream, it is too small. I am waiting for a CG Dynamix M24 Chaffee tank and I will thus see if it is bigger than the one I have from panzerdepot, if it is the case it will be careful with Panzerdepot models.

You've not really explained what you're concerned about here. Until maybe this last post.

So long as your vehicles are roughly the same scale then they will often look ok on a gaming table. You especially want all your vehicles of the same type to be the same size. If you have 8 shermans and 1 is bigger or smaller than the others then that's going to stand out.

I often mix manufacturers for "20mm" gaming and have 1:76 with 1:72. And those tanks are often only roughly to the scale claimed.

Not me the 1/144 is the 1/144 nothing else.

I was right because Panzer Depot wrote to me: "Now all our products are made by the 3D printing machine so the size is 100% 1/144 scale.

So the items you bought are 1/144 scale, except this sdkfz233 winter camo model ".

In any case, the M24 Chaffee from Panzer depot and exactly the same length and width as the M24 Chaffee from CG Dynamix !

Airfix made a model of the 234/4 in their OO scale, seems that it was re-issued in their "Vintage classics" collection, matchbox made the 234/2 Puma in 1/76. It's strange that no one tought to made the whole family, having the same chassis

IIRC the Airfix OO 234/4 was a mess. The fenders were too large and there were two instead of one big one. I 'fixed' one and converted the other to a 231/1 and used the gun to make a Marder 2 out of a panzer 2.

Have read that the Airfix kit of the 234/4 was based on a reconstructed vehicle where the rebuilders had not realised that the mudguards were entirely wrong for a 234…using an earlier variant as a template!
There are conversion kits out there… but for those who were around in the 1970s, the Airfix 'model' has a 'quaint charm'…if wrong!
Why Airfix have not retooled with appropriate mudguards on a separate sprue… ?
Same with the Airfix TigerI lack of a Turret bin!

For the Sd.Kfz. 233 "Stummel" from Panzer Depot, I was right because Panzer Depot wrote to me: "Now all of our products are made by the 3D printing machine so the size is 100% at 1/144 scale.

The Panzer Depot items are therefore on a scale of 1/144, with the exception of this winter camouflage model of sdkfz233 ".