"City Gamers?" Topic

I've run my PaperTerrain business for about 16 years now and I've probably had about 10,000 different customers. But very, very few of those customers have been in big cities. Out of 10,000, maybe 10 have been in New York City. Even fewer in Los Angeles, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, or Chicago. Worldwide it's the same. Scads of customers in England and Australia, but I rarely ship anything to London or Sydney. Is historical gaming a rural/suburban phenomenon?

From my experiences in living history, interest in history in general is low in major cities. So the fact you see the same thing is not surprising to me. I have experienced the same lack of interest in current political events in the cities as well. Just my experiences, but seem to be the same as yours. Also found the same with interest in the Civil War between areas of the country. More interest in the South then the North and the ones in the South are more knowledgeable (normally). I live in the Midwest, so disappoints me a little. Now that too changes if you are doing living history for a battlefield park. Great interest in Gettysburg and Antietam. Also found that today's generation of youth have less interest, which explains less interest in historical recreation groups and historical wargaming, in my belief.

Probably a lack of space.

+1 to CPT Beefheart. Boardgames of all sorts, including hex-and-counter wargames, have very substantial urban player bases, but miniatures wargaming is challenging in a modest-sized apartment.

Places like London tend to have youngish people in small houses or small flats (apartments). They are busy building careers and families.

Would-be wargamers amongst these people tend not to have the time, space, or money to actually wargame. They do that when they move out to the suburbs and a bigger house!

Miniature wargaming, as distinct from Boardgames, or simply reading history, is a space and storage intensive hobby. This is particularly true of terrain items, even those in paper.

Even a small 4x6 board is 24 square feet! Buildings even in 15mm scale, let alone 28mm, can fill up the space under the table or a large closet. The armies are multiple plastic boxes that consume yet another chunk of cubic feet. Add in the assorted supporting paraphenalia and you easily consume a moderate sized room!

OTOH, Board or paper map gaming is condensed, and an interest in history is actually quite easily found in any major urban environment replete with museums, universities, and historical societies of many descriptions. The biggest difference is one is likely to find more knowledgable, and well known, historical writers and researchers than in some small jerkwater rural locale.

The corollary to all of this is that anyone with a large private miniature wargaming venue in an urban area is likely above average in per capita income.

Locale has never seemed to stop the ones I have known who have lived in large cities. Game tables, yes. Figures, books and collectibles, no. Some were quite cluttered, but they found the space. One guy was a professor and wrote some British Napoleonic books. All he had was an aisle going through each room. Books, original British war gear and miniatures. 🙂 maybe in Europe it is different.

Speaking from personal experience, when I was a single 20-30 something living in a 1000 square foot condo I had a much smaller collection of figures and terrain than I do know. Buying a house with a basement was the only way to amass what I currently own

Basements, attics, and garages are the refuges for many a Wargame.

My buddy and I are customers of yours. We both live a town or two away from Toronto which I assume is a big city to you. Whether you consider us small town customers we both locate ourselves as near Toronto. Perhaps some of your other customers fall in the same box. Or perhaps we already are considered part of the big smoke.

BTW love your products. Thank you for all your efforts.

Most of the game stores that I remember had space and tables available for play, so no requirement for the same at home. OTOH there was a discussion on a Romanian site that explained the boardgame/computer game preferences due to lack of space in small apartments; apparently game stores that existed were unlikely to have large tables or spaces available for miniatures games.

Given how urbanised Australia is, I'm guessing that many of the customers actually live in suburbs of big cities, even if that is not immediately apparent from their postal addresses.

I should have been more specific with my original statement. I meant in inner city areas, not suburbs of major cities.

Oh, you mean not in the more diverse core urban area with a lower number of white, older, men. Probably less discretionary income because of a younger population. I suppose, in addition to the space issue, there is the fact that the hobby is largely white, older, and middle class. I'm sure most people have noticed. I can Imagine few reasons a young person of color would have any reason to game the ACW. He might be interested in the history as it impacted him, but gaming it would not be on his to do list.

Actually just pointing out my experiences. When my group has set up
Living history in city areas, very little interest from locals, especially the young today. Not true in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Interest is higher when outside city centers, but turnout by youth is much lower then in 70s, 80s and 90s. Getting young recruits is really rough today. I have noticed the same with war gaming. Mostly older and middle aged. One reason for decline in war gaming is hobby shops have disappeared. They served as a gathering place and a place for others to gain an interest in the figures painted on the tables and to be purchased on a whim. I got interested when Duke Siegfried set up large war games at a local mall and sold his Der Kreigspieler figures there. Also computer gaming has impacted the hobby, why buy, store and paint figures, when computers generate it for you and require no effort or study of uniforms and armies. But the lack of interest in history is more apparent today. I have had individuals at Gettysburg ask me if the monuments were there during the battle. One asked if the cannons were original. I thought he meant were any of them were actually in the Gettysburg battle, as all gun tubes on the guns there are original Civil War. But yes, one gun tube on the field there was actually in the battle. So I told him that. "No" he said, "didn't they just leave the pieces there after the battle and get new ones at the next battle?" Again I am just pointing out my own experiences since the 70's as one answer as to why the gentleman's sales might be less in urban areas. Other reasons pointed out are also just as valid.

Adding in my 2c: I know the OP said historical but Warhammer must be mentioned – I suspect you would see more WH gamers in urban areas like London. Both NYC and Philadelphia have game stores with game rooms for not only board& card gaming but also WH if not historical miniatures. Personally I started in historical miniatures living in a city and now that I am back in a house without a basement my collection is being downsized esp. 28mm terrain.

Franky ours is a niche hobby no matter where you are, so to say that this speaks to a lack of interest in history in the urban areas is a bit overboard. There is more evidence that it is a generational difference than one based on locale.

DeRuyter, agree. As stated in my entries, that has just been my experiences. Agreed generational is a big contributor, again as I wrote as well. Maybe there are scads of urban wargammers and I have not seen them recently. But when I have walked into some of the few hobby shops that remain, they are on the whole, not young that participate. With the exception of some fantasy games. War gaming like reenactment/living history, seems to be dying with those under 40. I have acquaintance in all areas of history who do reenactment/living history, Civil War, WW2, WW1, Rev War, French & Indian and I hear the same.

I would stress the simple fact that historical wargaming was always a niche hobby, and after the cancellation of the draft in 1972-73 no one under the present age of 39 was required by law to serve in the military. In short, few young people have any exposure to the military and the demand for servicemen has declined. The military life and history has become very distant from the lives of the majority of young people. This is very different than the experience of people over that age. Even more telling is that a substantial percentage ( nearly 40%) that do voluntarily serve are minority Black and Latino. They probably have far less interest in the ACW military actions, or imperialist conquests than their predecessors.

Fantasy gaming is far more popular than historical gaming with the young for many reasons, but I think this factor is a important one.

As a city dweller in one of the aforementioned cities, maybe it has more to do with there being more distractions in the large cities? For example, there are more single women in the large cities then single men. Those of us who live here have other "pursuits" for our discretionary dollars. 😉