"What rules do you use for Risorgimento/1866?" Topic

My gaming friends are very Black Powder orientated, but I'm getting a bit tired with those rules as every game, no matter what the period, feels exactly the same. We use them for Marlburian, ACW, AWI, Sudan, FPW, Napoleonic and although we use period specific rulebooks such as Glory, Hallelujah! I sometimes feel we might as well just push wooden blocks around the table as the end result would be just the same, there is no defining period flavour to the game I feel.
I've read some blogs where the main rules of choice for FPW and Risorgimento seem to be Bloody Big Battles or Fire & Fury.
Now my gaming friends and I used to use F&F until BP came out, but the final straw for my friends was one night when I passed my entire force of Confederate cavalry right across the frontage of a large battery of Union artillery worth 22pts, which fired as I traversed, but rolled a 1 and nothing happened. Now you might say that the same result would have occurred with BP, and indeed it could have, but that wasn't good enough so we had to change rule sets.
I've read on the blogs I've seen that some gamers use house rules made from a combination of BP and BBB or F7F. Now this seems like a good idea to me as there are some parts to these various rule sets that are appealing and work very well. I've copies of Bruce Weigle's various rules as well, but I have to say I can't get on with them, likewise Zouave II which i9s a bit abstract for my liking.
Which parts would you keep from these rule sets and which would you discard if you were making your own House Rules set for 1859 -1866?

There is Bruce Weigle's set titled 1866

link

I have not played them so I can't speak to that.

Age of Valor (Age of Eagles supplement). Based off Fire and Fury

We used to use Age of Eagles as well a long time ago, before BP. Again it wasn't really well liked, we swapped to using Shako II for Napoleonics before moving to BP. I doubt they'd go back to A of E either.

You can use the Age of Valour supplement with Fire and Fury (rather than Age of Eagles) with a couple of tweaks. That is what we do and it works well. That isn't going to help, however, if your group have taken a set against F&F and AofEs. I agree with your views on BP: it is a pretty poor set of rules hiding beneath a jolly, old school veneer.

I plan to use Field of Battle or a variant of Neil Thomas 19th Century rules whenever I manage to get my 10mm armies painted up.

To really play the full size battles of 1866 takes something about as abstract as AoV, F&F or BBB. I find the high-level F&F variants to be a bit too genericized.

I own all the Weigle games (1859, 1866, 1870, and 1871) and I've tried 1871 a few times. There's a lot there to like, and I love seeing every battalion while using regiments as maneuver units, but I'm not a fan of simultaneous movement or the order system, and I really don't like battalions of 3-4 figures (my mid-19th C. figures are all 15mm).

I am greatly intrigued with the idea of fighting the battles of 1853-1878 at a more tactical level with Regimental Fire & Fury. There is no practical way to fight full-sized battles this way, but I think it would be a fun way to experience the tactical differences between the armies, and the way the tactics of European armies differed from the ACW. There is a supplement to RF&F in WARGAMING IN HISTORY Vol. 8: The Austro-Prussian War of 1866 – The Campaign in Bohemia by John Drewienkiewicz and Andrew Brentnall which I'd love to try.

- Ix

Most of the battles of 1866 were as a minimum Corps sized and generally much larger. I've been playing this period for years and I've lost track of how many different sets of rules I've tried. Excluding home grown stuff, BBB and the Neil Thomas Nineteenth Century rules give decent games and have been published relatively recently.

I have a copy of the Wargaming in History Vol 8 but haven't had time to read it properly so I wasn't aware of the supplement to RF&F in it. I'll have to have a delve in and see, thanks for the heads up.

Neil Thomas' Nineteenth Century Rules review follows
link

Thanks for the link Sir Garnett, I have the Palouse Wargaming Journal bookmarked as I delve in from time to time, but I'd missed this review. Ordered the book from Caliver this morning.

We have used Field of Battle for 1866 and 1870. Great set of tules!

Thanks

John

Volleyfire – what scale of miniatures are you gaming the period with?

- Ix

The Bruce Weigle 1859 and 1866 rules would seem to be ideal. I share your problem with Black Powder; no matter the period, it fells like a game of Black Powder, not a Napoleonic/ACW/Zulu War game. Works fine as a game, but somehow never feels historical

Yellow Admiral I'm using 6mm from Baccus.
I'm currently working on all the units required for Solferino using the OOB on Wikipedia, however I'm basing the individual battalions on 60mm x 30mm bases with 36 figures per base for Austrian infantry, 24 per base for Piedmontese and the French. So far I've finished the Piedmontese and the Imperial Guard and I and II Corps of the French with 21 battalions of infantry and 4 squadrons of hussars left to complete III Corps before moving on to IV Corps. The Austrian First Army has II & III Corps completed and IX Corps almost finished. I didn't get much painting done last year as I was working 7 days a week right through lockdowns unfortunately, otherwise I'd be a lot further on with the project by now. I'm not sure how many thousands of figures I've painted, and have yet to paint, but I'm keeping Peter Berry living in the style he's used to I'm sure! The aim is to put on a game at Partizan either next Autumn or in 2022.

Just done a quick calculation. Painted thus far 2040 French infantry, 540 cavalry plus numerous artillery, 2160 Piedmontese infantry and 144 cavalry plus artillery and baggage train, and 2448 Austrian infantry with 108 cavalry and several artillery batteries. The OOB runs to 16 pages and I've six and a half pages worth left to paint, mostly Austrian now.

I had honestly never heard of Field of Battle rules until your post John. Had to look them up. Another one that looks very interesting. I've found a play through on the Blunders on the Danube blog which I'll read through before deciding whether to take the plunge and buy a copy.

I think I totted up roughly how many figures I needed to paint before I started and it came to about 10,000 IIRC.

We have been using since it came out many years ago. It's a great set of rules. It actually has information for a lot of different Wars as to Quality, period tweaks, tactical formations, command ratings and more. The author is a big fan of 1866. He playtested the rules for 1866 (amongst others). I also find 1866 very interesting as the battles are relatively figure friendly for numbers required. The Austrians certainly have their chances to win. I think the FPW is much less of a chance for the French to win. Prussian artillery doctrine was tested and refined by this point. I game it in 1/72 scale. I have recently picked up some painted 6mm FPW figs and ordered more from Baccus. I'll likley use Bloody Big Battles and or Absolute Emperor (with a FPW variant on the Facebook group in the files). I also own a ton of 15mm Rank and File plus Old Glory and Frei Korps figs. I owned a ton of painted ones but sold them off many years ago.

Thanks

John

"I think I totted up roughly how many figures I needed to paint before I started and it came to about 10,000 Iirc"

That is an awful lot of stuff to paint to paint for one battle. I did Solferino with brigade bases which made the whole thing relatively manageable.

Volleyfire: "I'm basing the individual battalions on 60mm x 30mm bases with 36 figures per base for Austrian infantry, 24 per base for Piedmontese and the French."

Your basing scheme fits perfect with the 1859/66 Grand tactical Rules. They also use one base=one bataillon. I also use 6cm bases (with 28mm miniatures) and would recommend, that you play the rules with 150% scale. But for Solferino you will need a very big table for your basing scheme. The 1859 rules split the battle in two, north with the sardinians, south the french.

Neil Thomas. Bruce Weigle's 1866 is worth buying whether you use the rules or not.

i have all of Bruce Weigle's rules actually, finding time to read through all these different sets from different authors, learn the nuances, and mark the bits I like and don't like is going to take some time.
Regarding the amount of figures involved, yes it is going to require a very long table, which is why it will probably just end up at Partizan and Joy of Six if I get it finished and can manage to enter. I think a battle of this scale needs doing justice. I'm torn over what to do about terrain though. I've one or two ideas in mind, and might approach different producers of custom terrain, especially for Solferino town itself as that needs doing well and is beyond my capabilities unfortunately.

I've read so many blogs lately from people who games this particular period, and there was one from someone who used BP with house rules and I think some BBB rules as well mixed in there, but I can't find or remember which blog it was. I wondered if anyone reading this knows which blog I'm referring to? I'd love to see a set of these rules they use.

Regarding the amount of figures involved, yes it is going to require a very long table, which is why it will probably just end up at Partizan and Joy of Six if I get it finished and can manage to enter. I think a battle of this scale needs doing justice. I'm torn over what to do about terrain though. I've one or two ideas in mind, and might approach different producers of custom terrain, especially for Solferino town itself as that needs doing well and is beyond my capabilities unfortunately.

It would be an easy battle to break up and do piecemeal, I would think.

Broken terrain. Clumps of forest. Etc.