"Machine guns, safety clearance" Topic

When setting sectors of fire the manuals imply you need 3 sec of arc clearance of friends. This seemed a bit complex for us so we pout in no closet than 10m normal to the line of fire out too 60mm. This is by no means perfect but it is simple and easy to define. There are loads of platoon level players so you must have come across this issue, What is your solution?

When setting sectors of fire the manuals imply you need 3 sec of arc clearance of friends. This seemed a bit complex for us so we pout in no closet than 10m normal to the line of fire out too 60mm. This is by no means perfect but it is simple and easy to define. There are loads of platoon level players so you must have come across this issue, What is your solution?

The safety template for live fire exercises was that the supporting fire would stop at 50m (in daylight- it was more for at night, but I can't remember how far). This was to reduce the likelihood of the supported troops being struck by ricochets- but that still did happen, though fairly rarely.

When putting guns in with fixed lines or fixed limits on exercise (blanks)/ops the rule of thumb was 25m in front of the friendly scrapes/pits, for the same reason.

Ricochets can occur off tree trunks, other vegetation, bare ground, water or even soft sand, depending on the angle of the round on first graze. They don't just happen off solid objects like rocks, buildings or metal. The faster the muzzle velocity the more likely they will ricochet, as well. Hence the "wide" margin- friendlies tend to get a tad upset if they cop your fire.

For game purposes make it 25m (10m for troops in stage 3 defensive works) and require a roll for friendly casualties for anything closer.

Cheers.

Last time I fired on a live range with supporting troops attacking the "enemy positions" I fired the gun 50m in front of the attacking friendly sections. I had an observer watching the friendly troops and calling out when I needed to switch targets to keep the fire going down but also keeping the safe distance to avoid any accidents.

It was a high powered gun team myself (SSgt) firing, another Snco loading for me and a Sgt Major controlling the fire – all three of us fully range qualified to run live firing.

The squadron leader said he wanted people who knew what they doing providing the fire support…

It was fun though. I miss that sort of thing, having been retired from the military for nearly 20 years now.

Barrie
TimeCast

Thanks, the bit about ricochets was new to me.

50 meters was the standard distance I recall in terms of keeping live fire off of friendly troops, which was called the "safety angle," but we expressed it in terms of mils, since that is the unit of measurement on the T&E.

This has come up here before, and I remember someone asking me something like "but you guys only did that in training, not in combat, right?"

My response was that Marines in combat don't enjoy being shot in the back any more than Marines in training do. Matter of fact, they enjoy it even less since they have people shooting at them from the front, too ;)

V/R,
Jack

We used the term "lift & shift supporting fires".

Regardless … good useful comments from the Vets …

Certainly Legion, shift fire was crucial to any assault, done by phase line or signal. We preferred the latter, typically used a white star cluster.

And I feel the need to clarify my statement about 50m: 50m was the desired beaten zone for overhead fire, while the cone of fire was 10 feet over advancing troops (using the safety angle), used for walking fire in support of advancing troops or over static positions in the defense.

But we far preferred offset firing, not walking but keeping fire on the objective until the safety angle reached or the signal to shift fire is received.

V/R,
Jack

shift fire was crucial to any assault, done by phase line or signal. We preferred the latter, typically used a white star cluster.

Yes, a star cluster, colored smoke grenade, etc., was are good signals/devices to lift & shift. As everybody can see it. And the enemy will probably just look at it as more incoming, etc.

But we far preferred offset firing, not walking but keeping fire on the objective until the safety angle reached or the signal to shift fire is received.

Yes, K.I.S.S. and even then it could still go South. If possible supporting fires come from oblique or enfilade firing positions. Firing over troops heads' … again could go South.

Diagrams from FMs of oblique and enfilade fires … link

But in some cases you will not be in position to use those types of fires.

Not on topic but ricochets do strange things. I was once hit center forehead, by an airgun pellet I shot at a paper target pinned to a tree trunk, 30' away. Damn thing just bounced straight back! lol!
Crazy, but true!
(A high powered .22 air rifle… not a BB gun.)

I was shooting a .44cal Civil War cap and ball revolver at a dump in the woods. The target was a washing machine. I fired a round that went through the sheet metal, bounced off the inside cylinder wash tub 90 degrees out the right side, hit a pine tree and came back and hit me in the right index finger knuckle probable saving it from hitting me in the face. Fortunately, it lost enough velocity to not even leave a bruise. Pretty embarrassing.

Wolfhag

OUCH!!!! Was the washer a clear & present danger, made in China, etc. ?