Tango01 | 04 Nov 2021 3:38 p.m. PST |
"Are we in a historic age of protest? A new study released Thursday that looked at demonstrations between 2006 and 2020 found that the number of protest movements around the world had more than tripled in less than 15 years. Every region saw an increase, the study found, with some of the largest protest movements ever recorded — including the farmers' protests that began in 2020 in India, the 2019 protests against President Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil and ongoing Black Lives Matter protests since 2013. Titled "World Protests: A Study of Key Protest Issues in the 21st Century," the study comes from a team of researchers with German think tank Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung (FES) and the Initiative for Policy Dialogue, a nonprofit organization based at Columbia University and adds to a growing body of literature about our era of increasing protests. Looking closely at more than 900 protest movements or episodes across 101 countries and territories, the authors came to the conclusion that we are living through a period of history like the years around 1848, 1917 or 1968 "when large numbers of people rebelled against the way things were, demanding change." …" Main page link Armand
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arealdeadone | 04 Nov 2021 4:17 p.m. PST |
Well given democracy is failing/being dismantled even in western states it makes sense people are looking at other methods of getting their message across. Unregulated capitalism and elites disconnected from the masses are generally a bad thing. |
Stryderg | 04 Nov 2021 5:13 p.m. PST |
I think we're living in an age of heightened anger, leading to more protests. @ arealdeadone: I'm curious, where do you see unregulated capitalism? I tend to see quite the opposite, you can't open a lemonade stand in your neighborhood without running afoul of numerous laws, regulations, guidelines and policies. |
arealdeadone | 04 Nov 2021 5:42 p.m. PST |
Stryderg, The regulations are often rubber stamp and have little or no impact on big business and often allow small businesses to get away with pretty much anything to. The really big stuff like transfer of capital is no longer regulated at all in any effective manner.
In fact a lot of regulations help business by allowing them to enforce minimum standards or create illusion of regulation or protect them from scrutiny.
Eg In Australia most strike/labor action is illegal or so highly regulated it's not actually possible to do practically. Literally employees can be fined $44,000 USD+ for striking or engaging in "unlawful" industrial action. Unlawful industrial action is all industrial action that your boss doesn't agree to or if your employer is doing something that endangers safety (and that has to be proven). Eg Anti-defamation laws in Australia are so strict they act to restrict freedom of speech. Basically one is allowed to take legal action against anyone tarnishing their reputation and the courts tend to settle on the plaintiff, not the defendant.
So journalists etc often avoid doing anything that might result in them getting sued. Eg Self-regulation – Building, telco, and finance and many other sectors have a lot of self regulation which has resulted in a lot of abuses (especially in finance sector) or negligence (eg Sydney apartments built with major structural flaws). I had a personal case too – a telecommunications complaint. After the company failed to deal with my complaint and merely made the situation worse. I went to the Telecommunications Ombundsman, on whose board sit representatives from major Australian telcos.
My complaint was merely shunted back to my telco provider. Eg Approval and planning laws – these are deliberately confusing and lacking in transparency so as to allow developers to do as they please. Again there are "complaint" and "consultation" mechanisms but these have no power and are just a venting valve designed to limit responsibility. Eg Regulators are defanged and useless – most regulators like Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) and Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) have been publicly noted as having no real power and no ability to stop bad corporate behaviour. They are deliberately set up as toothless tigers. Eg Most approval processes are rubber stamps without real review process Eg the Foreign Investment Review Board approves virtually all requests for foreign investment it gets. This has included things like Chinese companies buying up/leasing key Australian assets like ports. There is very poor regulation of foreign property buyers. The immigration system is a rubber stamp process too and is designed to ensure a steady influx of workers for Australian business so they don't have to train locals (or provide same working conditions). The rules and regulations are designed to protect multinational corporations and other business, not create true regulations against them. They are designed to protect businesses against employees and consumers alike an their main purpose is to reduce cost of industrial and environmental regulation as well as destroy opposition..
In reality there are no consumer protections and the only employees that still have any level of protection are government workers whose unions managed to retain a degree of power. |
Thresher01 | 04 Nov 2021 6:31 p.m. PST |
Democracy isn't failing, but communist/socialist/progressive ones ARE, and people are rejecting and rebelling against overly burdensome taxes, regulations, and restrictions to their freedoms. I do agree though that big businesses have truly bought the politicians off, and have them in their hip pocket, to the detriment of small and medium-sized businesses, and individual entrepreneurs. Corporate money donations to politicians should be made illegal, and felonies, punishable by stiff prison sentences, in order to redress the balance, but that is very unlikely to happen, since politicians will NOT be able to wean themselves from the corporate tit. Only individual citizens should be able to contribute to political campaigns, and those contributions should be limited as well. Strict term limits should also be enacted too, but again, those in power ARE very unlikely to enact restrictions on themselves. |
Tortorella | 04 Nov 2021 6:51 p.m. PST |
The US has the largest corporate tax evasion rate in the world by far. Financial rules are written by accounting firm employees who rotate through the Revolving Door at Treasury, then back to their firms to help clients avoid the rules they wrote. I don't see any communists, progressives, socialists not succeeding. I see a lot of authoritarian regimes pretending to be these things. I see a lot of blamer culture media using these labels to divide us for profit. Our adversaries must love it. Democracy is breaking down. But it's not the communists to blame. Unless we find the courage to unite despite what pols and the media tell us, democracy will end and autocracy will win. Thresher you are right, but a divided nation is easy to exploit. |
Stryderg | 04 Nov 2021 7:05 p.m. PST |
@ arealdeadone: Thanks for your point of view. I think we agree on the root causes of the problems, over regulation to the point of creating a two-class society (those who can skirt the law and those stifled by it). That's the cause of the anger/protests, people are getting tired of the (real or perceived) oppression. |
arealdeadone | 04 Nov 2021 9:12 p.m. PST |
Democracy isn't failing, but communist/socialist/progressive ones ARE, and people are rejecting and rebelling against overly burdensome taxes, regulations, and restrictions to their freedoms. Thresher01,
In case you've been having a 30 year nap, its 2021 and most Communist regimes collapsed in 1989-91. As for failing "progressive" regimes, which ones are those? And what is a progressive regime in the first place?
And you realise most progressives in power are globalised capitalists – they're all for free trade, free flow of labour (immigration), and are not averse to free flow of capital either. They certainly don't care much for labour rights either. "Progressive" regimes such as Canada or New Zealand are centre-right regimes by any stretch of the imagination. The Democrats are too. And finally taxes – many of those have been in free-fall for decades.
US top marginal income tax pre-1945 was 94%. It's now 37%. Corporate rate was 40%, it's now 21%.
Personally I would love it if the world spawned Franklin D Roosevelt clones to rule the world. That man knew how to get social democracy working! |
backstab | 05 Nov 2021 1:31 a.m. PST |
Lol … Arealdeadone, you do realise that your magic 94% tax rate was due to the war ? … and can you explain the breakdown of that tax ? Just for giggles , can you point out where socialism has worked for a population similar in size to the United States ? Or even Australia? socialism is just politicised envy ….. |
arealdeadone | 05 Nov 2021 6:39 a.m. PST |
Backstab you realise it was 24% in 1929 and already 63% by 1932 and increasing. It did peak in 1944 but it was already high in the 1930s. They stayed near 90% until 1964 at which point it was reduced to 70%. It didn't hit 50% until 1980s. It pays to do some research eh?
As for socialism, the pure version of it doesn't work cause humans are horrid, greedy pieces of crap. Social democracy with government properly regulating capitalist enterprise (and excluding it from essential goods and services like health) does work and is what created the living standards we had today and which we are slowly losing die to neoliberalism.
Socialism isn't envy. It has far more to do with trying to alleviate human suffering than capitalism whose main purpose is to empower those who are ambitious and without morality (in essence warlords and feudal lords of the past are the business leaders of today).
Indeed Socialism is even closer to Christianity than what supposed conservative pro capitalist Christians practice. After all Jesus's himself is quoted as saying "sooner a camel will pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man go to heaven."
Personally every rich person I have met has generally been a poor human being – entitled, greedy, selfish, often endemically used people, have low emotional intelligence and often behave immorally (even doctors).
Having worked in stock broking when I was young and working with doctors now, that is quite a few. Last "self made" wealthy business person I had the mispleasure of talking to at a kids party was bragging about ripping off employees and all his little tricks to deprive them of their entitlements. I just wanted to smash his head through a window to shut him up.
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Dan Cyr | 05 Nov 2021 9:13 a.m. PST |
Any time a small portion of a population has created a governmental tax system where they pay little or nothing, while the bulk of the population pays the vast majority of the money funding that government, one can always expect growing anger and frustration. One only has to look at how wealth is hidden, not taxed, passed on without taxes and the differences in life style between the 1% of Americans making a half million dollars a year and those who don't, to realize that it may take time for people to go over the edge, but that time is arriving. Of course those with the money are doing everything they can to stay in control and protect their wealth (and privileges). The only difference, in general, between most of today's democracies and overt authoritarian governments, is that the authoritarian governments don't try to hide what they're doing. YMMV |
Legion 4 | 05 Nov 2021 9:28 a.m. PST |
Historic Age of Protest ?!? I protest this thread. I'm going burn down a virtual city block, virtual police cars, etc., etc. ✊✊✊✊✊✊✊!!!! But it will be a mostly "peaceful" protest … 🏠🔥🏡🔥⛪🔥🏤🔥🏨🔥🚓🔥🚓🔥 |
Tortorella | 05 Nov 2021 10:29 a.m. PST |
Yes Legion we need to call it what it is. A riot is a riot Mostly peaceful protests last year by the numbers. But some people have been pushed to the edge, like 1968, and a riot goes off like a bomb and the fires spread. The usual opportunists also show up to loot and muddy the waters. And the wealthy quietly took another trillion out of the pandemic economy last year and squirreled it away. Taxes? What taxes! Yes its an historic time – both sides see democracy as threatened by the other and no one will step into the middle to take the heat and save it. This is why I don't really worry about China. The threat is right in front of us. |
huron725 | 05 Nov 2021 2:18 p.m. PST |
Yes…..mostly peaceful protests…as the city burns down around our heads. |
Gear Pilot | 05 Nov 2021 2:38 p.m. PST |
Every time I see a protest on the news, I think of this movie: YouTube link |
Tango01 | 05 Nov 2021 3:26 p.m. PST |
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pzivh43 | 05 Nov 2021 4:02 p.m. PST |
Who do you socialist think pays taxes? According to the IRS 2017 data, the richest 1% pays about 38% of income tax, and the top 10% pay 70% of income taxes. How much more should they pay? BTW, the bottom 50% of US taxpayers (earning less than about $40 USDK annually) pay less than 5% of the income tax. |
Legion 4 | 05 Nov 2021 4:52 p.m. PST |
Yes Legion we need to call it what it is. A riot is a riot There were something like 540 "unpeaceful" protests turned riots last summer. And most arrested were let go and/or not charged, IIRC. The usual opportunists also show up to loot and muddy the waters. Most got away with this type of crime.
IRS 2017 data, the richest 1% pays about 38% of income tax, and the top 10% pay 70% of income taxes. But some just don't get that … |
Tortorella | 05 Nov 2021 6:41 p.m. PST |
The corporate tax evasion numbers could run the country for years. America has that down to a science. The 1% actually pay more like 24 per cent of all taxes, and many evade taxes entirely. It's a small amount compared to the wealth they control. There were thousands of peaceful protests. But 500 violent protests made things much worse. They were dangerous for everyone, manpower was stretched beyond the limit. It is impossible to cover a city in meltdown, hard enough on a normal day. Not enough training in some places. I do not even want to talk political leadership. Frustrating and sad. Helped nobody's cause. |
arealdeadone | 05 Nov 2021 8:02 p.m. PST |
Pzivh in the US the richest 10% also have 70% of the wealth whilst the bottom 50% have a measley 2%. Bottom 50% paying "less than 5%" despite only having 2% of wealth means poor are taxed more proportionally than rich. It literally means progressive tax systems no longer operate properly due to tax reductions. Under progressive tax systems as operated by Australia and US the rich are meant go pay more proportionally than poor. It's not a flat rate system. I don't think either you or Legion get this. The richest 10% also own 84% of stocks (compared to 71% in 2001) and 88% of all financial assets (80% in 2007).
Every single new regulatory law in last 40 years has allowed rich to get richer whilst poor get poorer. And at least 8% ($7.6 trillion) of the global economy is funnelled through to tax havens which is effectively secret wealth on which no meaningful tax is paid. |
Zephyr1 | 05 Nov 2021 9:19 p.m. PST |
"I'm going burn down a virtual city block, virtual police cars, etc." The Sims should have come out with a game like that… ;-) |
backstab | 06 Nov 2021 2:24 a.m. PST |
Oh my god Arealdeadone, what do you think the governments back then used the tax money for ? Government funded healthcare ? Generous unemployment benefits? … it was used to pay off debts from the war . And .. you are wrong… socialism is the politicised envy … |
Tortorella | 06 Nov 2021 9:08 a.m. PST |
Socialism? These labels are counter-productive right now, mean nothing but fighting. I live in a New England state where we pay more in taxes than we get back in Federal aid. I have family in Kentucky, where they get back 4 times as many Federal dollars as they pay in taxes. I am fine with this sharing the wealth. Socialism? Envy? We are still one country and I hope we take care of each other. The right blows too many dog whistles, campaigns instead of leads. The left is pie in the sky, ideas without plans. So we protest back and forth, more than ever. The media is the historic factor in this case. Highly partisan for profit, it is at its most pervasive moment in history thanks to technology. It loves protests and makes them ratings winners. I am not sure we would have ever heard of the Tea Party without the support of propagandized media. It hands us the labels to keep it all going. Ka-ching |
Dan Cyr | 06 Nov 2021 11:10 a.m. PST |
+ 1 Tortorella The "media", as well as "social media" and the influence of outside actors, extremists and the mentally ill, have all contributed to the state of confusion, ignorance and hate being expressed. |
Old Glory | 06 Nov 2021 1:16 p.m. PST |
One question only and I tap out? Why are "wealthy successful people" automatically ignoble and evil, but poor people and government people and programs noble and honorable? Even if a program is "fair", good and honorable, do you not need "fair", good and honorable people to administer them? Russ Dunaway |
arealdeadone | 06 Nov 2021 2:15 p.m. PST |
Backstab money was poured into infrastructure and industry development which neoliberals then spent 40 years dismantling. Indeed US needs $4 USD trillion in basic infrastructure as there has been virtually no investment since 1960s (1970s is when neoliberalism begins to be adopted). Australia is in a similar boat – infrastructure in state I live is largely decayed and was given a D+ in one report with the statement that the state is living off past achievements in 1960s. It is so bad our stormwater system still merges with sewerage that gets pumped into our rivers. I don't believe in the institutionalised welfare state. Empowerment is much better. But neoliberalism as espoused by right wingers such as yourself requires massive welfare because it is based on destruction of employee rights through mass immigration (free flow of labour) and offshoring to exploit third world near slave labour conditions. This is why in Australia and America and UK even supposed right wing governments support maintenance of welfare state. They realise that without mass welfare they face mass poverty, starvation and rioting yet they don't want to do anything that actually peeves off the rich by empowering the poor. |
arealdeadone | 06 Nov 2021 2:26 p.m. PST |
Old Glory most humans are horrible, self serving, greedy and corrupt. I work with doctors and nurses in public health and they are as bad as the stockbrokers I worked in another life. What you need is good checks and balances that make corruption, exploitation and fraud too risky. And the punishments need to be brutal enough to act as deterrence (eg long stints in gaol). Systems need to be transparent and accountable. Yet they are increasingly not In essence the system must neutralise human nature.
Instead we have regulatory systems defanged, policies and procedures dismantled and punishments are made lenient.
In Australia there is public support for a corruption commission yet both sides of politics are essentially opposed to it.
I have worked for a health department for 16 years years. In that time mainly right wing governments have dismantled many of the old checks and balances. Fighting corruption, nepotism and bad practice is now extremely difficult and it is becoming more engrained as the old systems are replaced by nothing.
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arealdeadone | 06 Nov 2021 2:37 p.m. PST |
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Old Glory | 06 Nov 2021 3:22 p.m. PST |
So if most "humans are terrible" and the nature of mankind must be "neutralized" (?????) Why such a concern anyway about the poor suffering sods of human kind stuck somewhere between the chimpanzee and gibbon on the evelotuinary ladder? If the answer is in "regulatory systms" then sooner or later it seems the the corrupt nature of human kind will simply subvert, neutralize, or circumvent any system regardless of the "brutal" penalties -- do you mean such as capital punishment? It seems to me then, whatever system one clings to is doomed to be in the evil humans hands? Russ Dunaway |
Old Glory | 06 Nov 2021 3:29 p.m. PST |
Are labor unions ran by the hard working man full of corruption or full of the same ills spoken of ? "BEWARE OF THE MAN ON THE WHITE HORSE!" Russ Dunaway |
arealdeadone | 06 Nov 2021 4:25 p.m. PST |
I am not opposed to death sentences for violent crime or corrupt politicians or public servants or corporate executives. Any system needs to have constant vigilance applied to it. Systemic reviews and audits have to be part of the system. And they have to be meaningful. Eg health or aged care accreditation often only applies to policies and procedures. There are snap audits of paperwork. But there are no or very little audits of actual services. Hemce they needed a Royal Commissiom yo find out that fully accredited nursing homes were abusing patients (violence, malnutrition, neglect). Snap audits of actual service delivery with financial and legal penalties would improve actual care instead of just paperwork reviews and no ramifications for violations except some pathetic scapegoat. In my experience modern unions are just as bad. Note though they have lost a lot fo their power and have thus the vast majority of members including more capable ones. They have become just another part of a broken political system. |
Old Glory | 06 Nov 2021 5:08 p.m. PST |
Who is too consistently over time provide the "constant vigelence" and honest "systematic reviews" and and see to fair and just "snap audits" and what is to guarantee a "Royal Commission" remains "royal" Over time? Who can be trusted to draw up these enforcable by-laws, policies, principles without unspoken future hidden agendas? Especially if mankind's traits and charges are, as you say,so largely flawed? Perhaps a good, fair, and just king? However, when he is gone I would suggest we then beware of his son. What happened to the "modern union" and what could have prevented it from becoming the beastie it is ? Was it corruptible? As a little boy I clearly recall my daddy, a teamster officer leaving the house with his friends in the wee hours with baseball bats in hand to "correct" wayward members. I considered my dad, a decorated USMC vet of Guadalcanal and Peleliu a very honorable and good man. I will just write it off as them being officially appointed for handing out fair and brutal "punishments" to evil doers for the good of all ? At the age of 72 my experiences seem to have been somewhat different then yours. Although I have witnessed, recognize, and even been the victim of injustice, in the the vast amount of my experiences I have been treated fairly, kindly, with respect, and helped on in life from a vast array of people from every spectrum of society. Having seen for myself the horror of war as a Marine in Vietnam I fully am aware of the potential for cruelty!! I also have high hopes that this generation,the next, and the next, and the next will continue to correct, modify, improve, repair life for all mankind-- or what-- it seems to me-- has actually been happily happening the last several hundred years --(me, a victim of a heart attack that would have killed me 70 or less years ago, emts, choppers, ERs, doctors, nurses, procedures) I think we live in a great world that will only get better and better. Good luck and I pray you happen upon a larger percentage of good and kind people. Russ Dunaway |
arealdeadone | 06 Nov 2021 6:10 p.m. PST |
Assumes you can afford all that modern medical treatment which a lot can't in America. Even here in Australia there is the emergence of a two tier health system with all the wonderful stuff for those who can afford it and waiting lines and unaffordability for the rest. As for better world already my daughter won't be able to afford a decent priced home, will struggle to access rental properties, will have higher health, education and utilities costs, will struggle to find permanent employment with decent working conditions and live on a country with higher crime.
That doesn't even count whatever unknown economic, political and environmental hells occur between now and 2030 when she is 18. This is all stuff that has been happening in Australia since 1980s and is accelerating.
Median house price in Australia is now $995,000 USD whilst average income (not flawed GDP) is $55,829 USD of which $11,000 USD is tax.
Oh and cause sexism is still a thing median income for women is $40,547. USD So world for my daughter is going to be harder than previous generations.
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Old Glory | 06 Nov 2021 6:46 p.m. PST |
Anyone in America, regardless of financial situations would have received the same care. Nothing was asked of me prior to treatment. Care cannot be refused. After there are many, many wealthy donars and ccorporations that that have medical aid and trust funds that assist after. My daughter has, with a high school education risen through the corporate world and is at the top of her payscale -- due I believe to hard work, dedication, and commitment. If that is truly the cost difference between income and wages eventually the house Will actually simply become worthless to the owner who cannot sale it. It is called the laws of supply and demand. Most economic situations will right themselves if left alone. Russ Dunaway Russ Dunaway |
Dan Cyr | 06 Nov 2021 8:20 p.m. PST |
Fish don't realize that they breath water. |
Legion 4 | 06 Nov 2021 10:26 p.m. PST |
I don't think either you or Legion get this. Well than the IRS don't get it either … that is where those stats came from. Let's review … To quote pzivh43 : According to the IRS 2017 data, the richest 1% pays about 38% of income tax, and the top 10% pay 70% of income taxes. How much more should they pay? Albeit the data is from 2017 … I don't think things have changed that much … |
Tortorella | 07 Nov 2021 6:51 a.m. PST |
This is just for income tax. When you add in payroll and other taxes, the rich drop to 24 percent of total taxes paid, which is the real number to look at. Considering the staggering amount of money they take out of the economy, they do very well. Certain politicians always cherry pick these numbers to turn the tables on tax reform advocates. And the IRS has been gutted. Number of auditors is at 1953 levels, when the economy was 1/7 the size. As certain politicians have reduced tax collection, increased loophole, and refined corporate welfare, they have also increased spending. Then they throw up a wall of blamer sound bites to deflect accountability. The new guy is trying to address some of the IRS operating budget debacle, but it's almost impossible. As the disparity grows, so will the unrest. |
Old Glory | 07 Nov 2021 7:44 a.m. PST |
May I ask who generates these wages for the government, both fed and state to begin with so "payroll taxs and other taxs" can be collected ? Russ Dunaway |
Tortorella | 07 Nov 2021 10:08 a.m. PST |
Low income to upper middle income wage earners. |
Old Glory | 07 Nov 2021 10:16 a.m. PST |
NO -- They did not generate their own wages. They earned their wages, but they did not generate them. Russ Dunaway |
Tortorella | 07 Nov 2021 10:51 a.m. PST |
Ah, a good point Russ! But it is symbiotic. If the workers don't work, there are no wages to tax. The earnings of the investors is not taxed as payroll income. They can open an account in the Caymans for it. And wealthy people do not all invest. Trillions have been squirreled away. There are tax havens all over the world. I am not an economist either and claim no expertise. I believe in regulated capitalism, honest entrepreneurship, equal opportunity. But what I have learned points to the injustice that millions of people believe has rigged the system. |
Old Glory | 07 Nov 2021 11:21 a.m. PST |
I grew up in a neighborhood where I never saw an air conditioner, nor did any of my schools have air K-12. Not one store of any kind was open all night in my hometown of Des Moines,, Iowa-- now virtually everything is at our fingertips. Also. Only one car in my family. I walked one mile to elementary school, two to junior high, and 4 to high school -- that's one way each My senior year there were 5- 10 students with cars. As I sit and wait at the local high school to pick up my Granddaughter millions of $$$$$ worth of cars pull out of the "student parking." I have watched in awe in my life as things just got better and better for people in general. There are always, and will always be things to strife for and fight for-- wrongs and injustices. However I believe we live in a time where some choose to focus on what we do not have, not what we have, not where we have come from, but only where we are and can get to together. THE GENERATION OF THE THE UNGRATEFUL perhaps?? I have witnessed incredible acts of kindness and and sacrifice from many people and refuse to believe that people are generally "rotten and evil." I believe them to be generally good and kind. In 1968, as a 18 year old Marine, while walking point in the Republic of Vietnam, A vietcong stepped from the brush behind me with his AK leveled -- I was had -- we stood staring at each other several seconds – he slowly bowed and backed into the jungle and disappeared. How could I now believe anything but? Perhaps I am just naive and have not sufficient anger too go help burn down buildings and help ruin other people's lives? Russ Dunaway |
Legion 4 | 07 Nov 2021 11:57 a.m. PST |
+1 Russ … Thank you for your service … |
JRR Tokin | 07 Nov 2021 2:02 p.m. PST |
Ive seen numerous videos with thousands of protesters in at least 10 or 20 major cities , incl Australia, Italy, France, UK, Germany, USA, etc. Theyre still happening regularly if not growing… Now in the US you have the Lets Go Brandon stuff, which is certainly a protest. THe majority of these protests are against COVID laws, vaccines, lockdwons etc. It seems pretty obvious why the people are upset. Any of you WWII buffs ever hear of the Neuremburg trials? They made itsa crime against humanity pùnishable by death to coerce humans into undergoing experimental medical treatments. In Australia its as if there was a bolshevik revolution, they literally have concentration camps now (wellness camps), and they come to your house and get you if you make a post online that they dont like. In many places around the world you have to show medical papers to enter public places. The weird thing to me is to see how many people arent protesting this kind of stuff, but advocating for more of it. I mean, you had Schwarzennegger literally come out with a straight face and tell the American people "Screw your freedoms". Now im no expert in the American Revolutionary War, but Im pretty sure the was the British battle cry… |
arealdeadone | 07 Nov 2021 2:47 p.m. PST |
Well than the IRS don't get it either … that is where those stats came from No you don't understand what a progressive tax system is. In a progressive tax system the rich pay more. So eg those who control 70% of wealth might pay 80% of the tax.
70% of wealth paying 70% of tax = flat rate system. In fact given it seems those with 2% of wealth pay 5% of tax, that's a regressive system! |
arealdeadone | 07 Nov 2021 3:15 p.m. PST |
And wealthy people do not all invest. Trillions have been squirreled away. There are tax havens all over the world. Exactly. I am not an economist either and claim no expertise. I believe in regulated capitalism, honest entrepreneurship, equal opportunity. But what I have learned points to the injustice that millions of people believe has rigged the system. Agreed.
I have watched in awe in my life as things just got better and better for people in general. I really don't mean to offend but it is your generation (baby boomers) who is the primary beneficiary of these improvements. The improvements are no longer happening. Americans, Australians born now can no longer expect to have the same living standards as their parents or grandparents.
As I mentioned everything from job stability to housing to access to health and education is becoming more difficult.
In America the country is literally regressing in terms of life expectancy and several health indicators such as deaths during labour etc. In Australia wages growth is stagnant whilst housing and other key essentials skyrocket. The inflation rate is low because non essential stuff has come down. But if you can't afford a house or food or electricity you won't be spending much money on non-essentials.
Even in Australia which has a better health system than US (though still flawed), 33% of heart and cancer sufferers and 50% of mental illness sufferers miss treatments due to cost. Though in reality there's the availability of cheap barely regulated debt ala pay day loans, credit cards etc to keep the unsustainable consumer death ride going.
THE GENERATION OF THE THE UNGRATEFUL Typical baby boomer talk. I actually find baby boomers and X Genners (and I am X gen) are entitled and hypocritical to the nth degree.
They with their free education (university was free in Australia until some Babyboomer/X Genners who benefited from it decided it should be paid for), job stability and affordable housing lap up their middle class welfare and vote against laws to give their own children and grandchildren a better chance at life. They begrudge the younger generations who are there working just as hard and if not harder in poorly paid service jobs like making coffee or aged care wiping baby boomer butts which replaced the better paid industrial and higher level service jobs which the baby boomers and X genners had offshored or scrapped with automation. The baby boomers/x gen complain how the younger generations don't want to work for peanuts or how they want to be able to afford a house or live on a planet that's not totally polluted or be able to afford a home. It is called the laws of supply and demand. Most economic situations will right themselves if left alone. Sorry but that's as delusional as believing in true communism. In reality it's about power. The more power you have the more you control legislation or other factors that instantly make the powers of supply and demand meaningless. Indeed remember in the 19th and early 20th century (up to WW2) in the USA when workers had no rights, were gunned down when protesting (and one US president threatened to bomb them with USAF), natives were dispossessed, murdered and forcibly relocated (ethnic cleansing), children's worked and died in coal mines and factories and they even referred to the ruling capitalists as robber barons? That is laissez faire capitalism in action. Who stopped that – it was socialist minded people like Franklin D Roosevelt. In fact FDR rebuilt the US as a far better society. But eventually the rich found their way with types like Ronald Reagan started dismantling what many workers and others died fighting for. The rich used the Chicago School of Economics and its successes in dictatorships such as Chile to justify destroying social infrastructure and social fabric. As I sit and wait at the local high school to pick up my Granddaughter millions of $$$$$ worth of cars pull out of the "student parking." Obviously a rich primarily white school. . In many places around the world you have to show medical papers to enter public places. The weird thing to me is to see how many people arent protesting this kind of stuff, but advocating for more of it. So according to you people should have the freedom to spread disease to others and others should have their right to exist in a space healthy environment violated?
I dread to think what would have happened if COVID was ebola level lethal with all these anti-vaxxers and freedom types running around declaring it's their right to infect others. Can we then claim right to self defence and shoot those who want to spread disease? |
Old Glory | 07 Nov 2021 3:31 p.m. PST |
Angry and totally delusional with a assumptions of much and a suffering from petsonal delusions of grandeur. Also, Refusal to really answer questions. I have work to do and a business to run so as to provide income to myself and many others. No longer wasting my time. Russ Dunaway |
arealdeadone | 07 Nov 2021 3:37 p.m. PST |
What questions did you even ask? You merely talked about how great your life is without taking into consideration what is happening to a lot of people, which is why they're protesting and rioting etc. But then this is the way of the rich … |
JRR Tokin | 07 Nov 2021 3:49 p.m. PST |
"So according to you people should have the freedom to spread disease to others.." YES, absolutely. It's been that way since time immemorial. What kind of a lunatic would think they could ever stop it? "and others should have their right to exist in a space healthy environment violated?"
Good question for the blokes currently languishing in COVID wellness camps. That would be putting a target on the back of anyone from those with herpes to the common cold to COVID to HIV, false positive, etc. Surely you see how impossible this would be to implement, not to mention the more troubling ethical implications of this kind of thinking? "I dread to think what would have happened if COVID was ebola level lethal with all these anti-vaxxers and freedom types fighting. Can we then claim right to self defence and shoot those who want to spread disease?"
Anyone who was that sick wouldnt be out and about spreading it to others and I guarantee you the healthy would lock down voluntarily in a hurry. Are you suggesting going into hospitals and euthanizing those with infectious disease? Of course no one in such a society would be allowed to own a gun in the first place, but I also hardly think you'll like it either, especially when they make those with such a diseased form of thinking the first ones on the list. Until recently, a tenet of Western Judeo Christian societies has been a belief in mercy, caring for the poor, and sick, Jesus among the lepers, etc. so sorry if you find my point of view shocking. I do get where youre coming from though, basically, "Screw your freedoms", right? Pardon the off-topic question, but are you under 30 and were you educated in a middle class public school in California by chance? |
Legion 4 | 07 Nov 2021 4:10 p.m. PST |
In a progressive tax system the rich pay more. So eg those who control 70% of wealth might pay 80% of the tax. Yes … I think we all know that … but thank you for reminding us. 70% of wealth paying 70% of tax = flat rate system. In fact given it seems those with 2% of wealth pay 5% of tax, that's a regressive system! Wait … again to quote : According to the IRS 2017 data, the richest 1% pays about 38% of income tax, and the top 10% pay 70% of income taxes. How much more should they pay? AFAIK that is correct … No matter what you call in … 🤔 Typical baby boomer talk. Well we'll all be dead soon so someone else can be the boggy man/white devil. ☠ 👹👿[imagine white devil emoji] I actually find baby boomers and X Genners (and I am X gen) are entitled and hypocritical to the nth degree. Hypocrisy is the coin of the realm. You are either a hypocrite or a racist and if you are an old white man you both. At least that is what I have been told in the media. 😏🙄 |