"12lb Smoothbore or 12lb Napoleon" Topic

I had always thought these were the same cannon. But the rules we play lists a 12lb Smoothbore but not a Napoleon. This is the first ACW set of rules I have played that doesn't list the Napoleon. It occasionally causes some confusion amongst our players as out of habit the more experienced players amongst us keep calling it a 12lb Napoleon. So are they the same?

Interesting question. The 12-pounder Napoleon was a smoothbore and it was a standard field piece during the war.

I would venture that it's the same piece, but you never know. An older design/model 12-pounder would have been heavier.

One of the authors responded by saying, that it was called the Napoleon in the North and in the South the training book called it a 12lb Smoothbore. I am still going to call a Napoleon, no matter which army.

Was going to respond, but the OP got the answer he was looking for.

I would say that the author is incorrect considering that the Confederate Ordnance manual specifically calls it a "Napoleon."

Yes, there was an older 12-pounder smoothbore gun. (not much used during the War, as it was a bit too heavy for field service.) There was also the 12-pounder (smoothbore) howitzer, which was used quite a bit.

In the pre-War Army a standard battery of field artillery had 4 6-pounder guns and 2 12-pounder howitzers. But a few had 4 12-pounder guns and 2 24-pounder howitzers.

The "Napoleon" was technically a 12-pounder gun-howitzer, as it combined the best features of both. It was called "Napoleon" because its development had been sponsored by the then-emperor of France, Napoleon III -- or at least because it had been developed in France.

donlowry has the correct information.

The original 12 pdr gun (model 1841-44) was replaced by the 12 pdr Napoleon which was 530 pounds lighter. Performance of either was pretty much the same, so the reduced weight was the biggest advantage.

The US fielded 12 pdr Napoleons for their smoothbores and very rarely any other types of smoothbores.

The CSA did field 12 pdr Howitzers, but their range was far less then the Napoleon,

Late in the war, due to shortage of Bronze, the CSA made 12 pdr smoothbores out of iron. While iron is slightly lighter then bronze, it is not as ductile.

Effectively, all 12 pdr smoothbore Guns (not 12 pdr howitzers) are all Napoleons on both sides as the older 1841-44 model had been replaced by both sides.

Kim

The US fielded 12 pdr Napoleons for their smoothbores and very rarely any other types of smoothbores.

That is true of the Army of the Potomac, but not necessarily true of the other Union armies, which continued to use 6-pdr guns and 12-pdr howitzers and other smoothbores well into the war. For instance, IIRC, Grant had a battery of 24-pdr howitzers at Champion's Hill.

24-pounder howitzers are just a little larger than 6-pounder guns and 12-pounswe howitzers.

If I'm not mistaken, weren't there also quite a few of the old 6-lber bronze smoothbores (which had been a standard artillery complement in the pre-war US Army), which got bored out and rifled to take the "James projectile"? The process began before the war, but was continued in the early period of the war because of a lack of newer "true" 12-lbers, like the Napoleon.

These 6-lbers, once bored, fired a heavier projectile, and were often called "12 lber James Rifles".

Two excellent references for Civil War artillery are:

-Artillery and Ammunition of the Civil War by Warren Ripley.

-Field Artillery Weapons of the Civil War by James Hazlett, Edwin Oldmstead, and M Hume Parks.

The following is a listing of Federal Field Artillery Pieces in 1861 taken from the second reference above, page 28:

Model Year 1861:
6-pounder Wiard Rifle.
10-pounder Parrott Rifle.
3-inch Ordnance Rifle.
20-Pounder Parrott Rifle.
12-pounder Wiard Rifle.

Model Year 1857:
Napoleon light 12-pounder gun.

Model Year 1844:
32-pounder/6.4-inch howitzer.

Model Year 1841 and Earlier:
6-pounder gun.
Rifled 6-pounder.
Rifled 12-pounder.
James Rifle Type 1
James Rifled 6-pounder.
James 6-pounder.
James Rifle Type 2.
14-pounder James Rifle.
12-pounder gun, heavy 12-pounder.
Rifled 12-pounder.
24-pounder Rifle.
Mountain Howitzer (Model 1835).
24-pounder howitzer.
Coehorn Mortar.
32-pounder Howitzer.

It should be noted that the 6-pounder caliber pieces were becoming/ or were obsolete during the period.

The Confederacy did produce its own Napoleon 12-pounder, but it was different as the gun tube was not flared at the muzzle as was the Federal piece, but was designed and cast straight.

When the French introduced the new Valee Artillery System ca 1827, the older Systeme AN XI 6 pounder was considered to have to light a throw weight, and the two long guns in the new system were 8- and 12-pounders.

24-pounder howitzers are just a little larger than 6-pounder guns and 12-pounswe howitzers.

Yes, but were still smoothbores. I can't happen to recall a specific instance of 6-pdrs in the Army of the Tennessee or of the Cumberland, but I'm quite sure there were some/many. The 24-pounders stuck in my memory because they were unusual.

Yes, some old 6-pdrs were turned into James rifles, that is, they used the James ammunition. (There were also purpose-made James rifles.) But bronze rifling quickly wore out, and you had a smoothbore again.

As for French artillery, IIRC, the old Gribauville (sp?) system used 4-pdrs (attached to regiments), 8-pdrs (attached to divisions, and 12-pdrs (attached to corps), but Napoleon captured so many 6-pdrs that he used them too, and, I believe, actually preferred them to the 4- and 8-pdrs as being more powerful than the former and more mobile than the latter. Not my period of expertise, however.

The Gribeauval System was the first field artillery system in the French Army. The three calibers were 4-, 8-, and 12-pounders.

The French abolished battalion guns 1798-1800 and the 4-pounders were employed as field artillery as late as 1811. The French favorite piece for horse artillery, according to General Ruty, was the 8-pounder which was a mobile field piece. And according to Louis de Tousard, the 12-pounder was mobile enough to be used by the horse artillery.

The new French 6-pounder was supposed to replace both the older 4- and 8-pounders, but the latter were still employed in Spain. The 8-pounder was still being used in the main theater as late as the campaign of 1809.

There were MANY 6# M1841 (and associated 12# Howitzers) in the Army of the Cumberland and Tennessee, and in ALL the armies in the Western (as in "West of the Appalachians") theatre, at least through 1863.

The Artillery of the Confederate Army of the Tennessee(?) had to turn in their M1841's to have them melted down and recast as Napoleons through 1863-64, IIRC. Thus the Cast Iron confederate Napoleon in Hazlet, et. al.

Almost all the guns at Pea Ridge (March 7-8 1862) were 6# or "Rifled 6#" (James System?) and associated 12# Howitzers. NO "Napoleons", although one is on display in front of the Visitors Center. But you would have to check the detailed OB in Shea & Hess for details on on that, since I no longer own a personal copy.

The Army of the Cumberland was full of 6 lb. James rifle conversions and 12 lb. Howitzers until after Chickamauga in Sep. 1863. Only during the Atlanta Campaign were they finally consistently 10 lb. Parrots, 3" Ordnance Rifles, and 12 lb. Napoleons.

Here is the artillery outfit of Thomas's 14th Corps at Chickamauga -

UNION ARMY

14th Army Corps (Thomas)

1st Division
4th Battery, Indiana Light Artillery – [2 x N] + [2 x J] + [2 x 12h]
Battery A, 1st Michigan Light Artillery – [6 x P]
Battery H, 5th US Artillery – [4 x N] + [2 x P]

2nd Division
Bridge's Battery, Illinois Light Artillery – [2 x N] + [4 x 3R]
Battery G, 1st Ohio Light Artillery – [4 x N] + [2 x 3R]
Battery M, 1st Ohio Light Artillery – [4 x J] + [2 x 3R]

3rd Division
Battery D, 1st Michigan Light Artillery – [2 x P] + [2 x J] + [2 x 12h]
Battery C, 1st Ohio Light Artillery – [2 x N] + [4 x J]
Battery I, 4th US Artillery – [4 x N]

4th Division
18th Battery, Indiana Light Artillery – [6 x 3R] + [4 x Mh]
19th Battery, Indiana Light Artillery – [4 x N] + [2 x 3R]
21st Battery, Indiana Light Artillery – [6 x N]

- which totaled to 74 guns:
28 x 12lbr Napoleons
16 x 3in Rifles
10 x Parrot Rifles
12 x James Rifles
4 x 12lbr Howitzers
4 x Mountain Howitzers (6lbr?)

54 were "modern" guns (73pct)
20 were "second quality" guns (27pct)

FWIW.

B