"Trickiest battles to simulate? Best documented? Most iconic?" Topic

The latest development in my Ancients rabbit hole is writing my own ruleset (turning out to be a funky DBA/TTS-lite with deck building so far).

I wanted to make sure that the core mechanics were solid, so I'm trying to gather some distinguishing historical battles that I want to plausibly replicate.

I do want to reach across all periods and geographies pre-gunpowder if possible. I want to model the common principles at work when throwing thousands of men at each other, so looking for variety as much as possible.

Here's what I have so far:
thermopylae, cannae, Teutoburg Forest, alesia, issus, gaugamela, changping, kalinga, watling street, red cliffs, fei river, salsu, catalaunian plains, yarmouk, gwiju, nhu nguyet river, Bach dang river, yamen, Terek river, Tumu crisis, chungju, sekigahara, panipat, vaslui, Taginae, the Volturnus

I'll also be throwing in whatever's listed in Neil Thomas Ancient & Medieval, Lost Battles, Ancient Battle Formations, and Legion vs. Phalanx

Any other ideas, resources, "favorite matchups", and especially "pet peeve matchups" would be greatly appreciated!

You're going up to the very end of the 16th century (Sekigahara – not really "pre-gunpowder", and Panipat certainly isn't!) but you don't have a single mediaeval or 16th-century European battle? Where's Poitiers, Hastings, Crecy, Nicopolis, Agincourt, Varna, Bosworth, Fornovo?

Why Thermopylae and not the larger Plataia?

Some Roman civil war battles would be obvious candidates – Dyrrhachium, Pharsalus, Bedriacum (x2), Milvian Bridge.

Anything much earlier than Thermopylae is difficult to find hard data on, but Megiddo, Qadesh, Muye, Qarqar, Chengpu, Bi…

Just out of curiosity linedblock, why a new set of rules? What game approach are you taking that another set couldn't provide? What will your niche be?

Great suggestions! I will add them in. At a certain point, I think time will be a limiting factor, and will only be able to read through + play test the highlights and most famous or interesting ones.

I just went through a list of battles with the most casualties (hence the absence of medieval western europe) => link
and picked a few from each war/era for most of my starting list!

Was assuming the books would cover the more significant "smaller" battles.

My niche will be myself, my family, and my friends :)
I would love to dive into deeper rulesets, but our lifestyles realistically means that we're just casual board gamers. I still want to scratch that itch, and involve my friends too.

They could only barely manage C&C Ancients, so I wanted something a step below that. Turn-offs are measuring/tricky geometry (DBA family), referring to a rulebook constantly for exceptions and factors, as well as uninspiring game setups (TTS, C&C are slightly on the tedious side for the unfamiliar)

I'm hoping to take advantage of card systems for the set up (with the popularity of games like dominion and other deck builders). I also like the idea of using cards to trim the amount of information that needs to be referenced at a given point in time, vs indexes and charts baked into books.

At the end of the day, a lot of people are just looking for the perfect feel "for them" with homebrews, and it's a fun learning exercise in itself!

I would comment that many famous battles have some kind of a tactical "trick" that was decisive, and that if the opponent knows about that trick then the battle wouldn't play out in the same way

John

I agree! My hope is that having cards may inject a sense for these "tricks" – where the opponent might not know which exact trick you might use, or where and when. Similar to the stratagems found in TTS.

then at least i can replicate the same feeling of uncertainty and surprise

Take a gander at these:
link

Uses cards and dice. Give it a look.

Just out of curiosity linedblock, why a new set of rules? What game approach are you taking that another set couldn't provide? What will your niche be?

Because he doesn't like what's out there?
I went through the same, looking for the "perfect" AWI rules.
Hint. They don't exist. Nothing has everything you think is needed.
So I wrote my own. They were horrible.
So I settled.

Hydaspes, Carrhae, Parwan or Indus in 1221,Yehuling

Because he doesn't like what's out there?

Perhaps but the question would be why? Why doesn't he like what's out there. There are so many sets available today that I am curious what niche he is looking for. Perhaps linedblock might even find something he likes. No point of reinventing the wheel if you don't need to. I think his answer offers some explanation.

I do not have any unrealistic expectations about how perfect my rules system will be! If i could just get a game to the table with some of my casual friends, that would already be a big win! Though at this rate I might need to build in a coop mode…

mad monkey 1: Thanks so much for pointing Aurelian out! The army deck system is actually very similar to what I was imagining, which is very inspiring. I do think some of the different systems and mechanics are still a bit too much overhead for my friends though. Have you played any games with Aurelian? Any thoughts?

smithsco: Thanks for those suggestions!