"China's Newest Major Block Buster Movie Is About A Military" Topic

… Victory Over America

"The creators of the hit new James Bond film will have been left shaken and stirred by the news that they were trounced at the box office on their opening weekend by a Chinese war film commissioned by the Communist Party.

The Battle at Lake Changjin has raked in a whopping $203 USDmillion, far eclipsing No Time To Die's $119 USDmillion and Marvel's Venom: Let There Be Carnage which took receipts of $90.1 USDmillion.

The three-hour epic revels in a rare Chinese victory over the US-led United Nations forces during the Korean War…"

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Armand

So it's a Sci-Fi ?

AKA the Battle of Chosin Reservoir link

The greatest fighting withdrawal in U.S. history. We effectively destroyed two Chinese divisions and severely depleted two others and successfully pulled out our entire force under their noses and then blew the docks on our way out. But I guess China has to take its "rare victories" where they can.

yes, but as many forget we also have Taskforce faith on the left side of the Reservoir. Chinese and the North Koreans have been making these kind of movies for years.

2 divisions might have been acceptable losses to the PLA, at least in Mao's time.

Task Force Faith was stuck out in a vulnerable position, had no support when hit (the Marines were buried in their own troubles at the time) and destroyed.

It along with the near destruction of the 2nd Infantry Division at the same time are mostly long forgotten or never known. Plus there were a number of other units mauled or destroyed.

Destroying 2 Chinese divisions might have meant something, but they were tiny (5-7,000 men), lightly armed, no communication gear, badly uniformed for the weather, no air or artillery support and starving.

Again, a 3rd world power (at the time) badly mauled the UN troops and drove them back hundreds of miles. They have a right to celebrate.

Will the Chinese victory over the Vietnamese at the Spratly Islands Reef in the South China Sea be next, where they massacred dozens/scores of lightly armed/unarmed troops with machine guns and cannons fired from their naval vessels, without warning?

I imagine that might also sell well in some circles, though far less so in others.

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Clearly, one of the Chinese Navy's finest hours, in the modern era.

Considering the opinion the UN forces had regarding Chinese intervention and capabilities I don't doubt the Chinese see it as a victory. They fought with what they had and pushed the the UN back, they could accept the losses.

I don't think I ever thought of China as a third-world power. Their armies were always huge and poorly armed, but first-world powers were never able to take over the country at will.

This is a part of their program to prepare their people and warn ours about the coming military portion of the Great Chinese People's War against the West, which has been underway for some time.

Considering the opinion the UN forces had regarding Chinese intervention and capabilities I don't doubt the Chinese see it as a victory. They fought with what they had and pushed the the UN back, they could accept the losses.

Again the PRC has the numbers to take heavy losses especially in ground combat. They are 20% of the world's population.

And yes that was a consideration during Vietnam both with the France and the US. The concern that the PRC would send large numbers of combat troops again to support their "Communist Brothers". I had read the French were even concerned about the PRC's Russian made T-10s coming South. Even if the terrain may have been a factor to consider.

But the French and the US always had to keep an eye on the PRC. Right across the Northern border of Vietnam.

I was at Chipyong-Ni a number of times when I was in the ROK '84-'85. Was considered the high water mark for the Chicoms. A very interesting battle and battlefield. The US Army had a Bn + of French with them there too. As it was a UN mission. The PRC took heavy losses in this battle.

But I can see why they consider the Chosin a victory even if they did take heavy losses. It did force the UN forces to do a fighting withdrawal and take heavy losses as well. I was assigned to 1/31 Inf/2ID in the ROK.84-'85. The 31st got hit pretty hard when the Chicoms attacked. See the link Bill posted.

Chipyong-ni –
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The comments on the YouTube link are interesting, lots of Chinese commenters re-writing history -- China took only 170,000 casualties in the whole Korean War, China defeated the UN, China only acted defensively to protect North Korea from a US attack, China had no role in starting the Korean War -- it was actually started by the US, and so on.

Oh, and the CCP calls the Korean War, "The War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea."

Interesting they are surprised at the dollars coming in. I wonder if the studio is aware of their market? US movies are made with an eye to the Chinese market and studios have changed movies to appease the PRC or risk those sweet PRC dollars, and they will continue to do so proudly.

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Thanks!

Armand

SBminisguy I think your total of 170,000 causalities is a low.
The last years of the war the PRC lost a lot of men for next to no gain (UN also)

Does anyone believe the PRC/CCP would give an accurate historical account with the correct stats, etc. ? 😏

Those have been CCP propaganda points all along and haven't changed. Has anyone brought up supposed American biological warfare yet? A lot of western intellectuals fell for that one too. It turns out they do trust information extracted from torture after all.

The comments on the YouTube link are interesting, lots of Chinese commenters re-writing history -- China took only 170,000 casualties in the whole Korean War, China defeated the UN, China only acted defensively to protect North Korea from a US attack, China had no role in starting the Korean War -- it was actually started by the US, and so on.

Oh, and the CCP calls the Korean War, "The War to Resist US Aggression and Aid Korea."

SBminisguy I think your total of 170,000 causalities is a low.
The last years of the war the PRC lost a lot of men for next to no gain (UN also)

I agree, the figures I've heard are closer to 900,000 PRC casualties -- but the Chinese trolls claim only 170,000.

More importantly, theater chains in China fake ticket sales for "command performance" movies. They're required to show the government-funded movies on a certain number of screens. Trying to remember where the article was, L.A. Times, Variety, something like that. Anyhow, the point is to make the government's patriotic movies appear to be more popular in China than Hollywood blockbusters.

Maybe this is a really good movie with great special effects and audiences are flocking to see it! But maybe not …

I'm wainting their movie about China-Vietnam War….

Armand

There's this:

YouTube link

Does anyone have numbers of aircraft of both side involved in that battle

Maybe this is a really good movie with great special effects and audiences are flocking to see it! But maybe not …

I heard the audiences were glued to their seats…and had to be removed later…

From the link Bill posted :

Date 27 November – 13 December 1950
Location
Chosin Reservoir, in present day Changjin County, South Hamgyong Province, North Korea
Result See Aftermath section
Territorial
changes UN forces tactically withdraw; Chinese forces recapture northeastern North Korea
Belligerents
United Nations (UNC)

United States
South Korea
United Kingdom
People's Republic of China
North Korea
Commanders and leaders
United Nations Douglas MacArthur
United States Edward Almond
United States Oliver P. Smith

China Peng Dehuai
China Song Shilun
Units involved

see Battle of Chosin Reservoir order of battle See Battle of Chosin Reservoir order of battle
Strength
Nominal: 103,520[1]
Committed: ~30,000[2] Nominal: 150,000[3]
Committed: ~120,000[4]

Casualties and losses
US sources:
1,029 killed
4,894 missing
4,582 wounded
7,338 non-battle casualties[5][a]
15 tank losses[6]
17,843 total

Chinese estimation:
13,900[7]

Chinese sources:
19,202 battle casualties
28,954 non-battle casualties
48,156 total[7]
Unofficial estimations: ~60,000[8]
UN estimation:
29,800 battle casualties
20,000+ non-battle casualties[9]

Does anyone have numbers of aircraft of both side involved in that battle

AFAIK the US'S/UN'S were the only aircraft in the air at Chosin. The US was using WWII Corsairs for CAS …

Alot of vitriol for China making war propaganda when the US does the same thing. How many war movies glorifying US actions are there? Anyone forget American ,Sniper, Lone Survivor, Black Hawk Down, Fury, Saving Private Ryan, etc.? The US military regularly allows access to equipment, facilities, etc. for filming so long as it is portrayed in a positive light.

The only noteworthy thing about this is it shows the enormous clout China has in regards to global capitalist entertainment (since they always chase the money).

Have you watched any Chinese war propaganda? American movies have a lot of silliness, but they most often try to be "nuanced" and show many "fuzzy" situations where you end up sympathizing with enemies, civilians, etc.

Then you watch the Chinese "magic anti-Japanese dramas"…

Now, I'll reserve judgement on this movie, since I haven't watched it yet. There have been good Chinese historical dramas, although the ones that talk about "sensitive subjects" tend to be censored or banned altogether even in the best of times.

Alot of vitriol for China making war propaganda when the US does the same thing.

I found data that US Navy had 2-4 carriers and USMC had 2 escort carriers. USAF used southern airfields. I didnt find any data for Chinese and N Korean air forces during battle but I also didnt find any data of aircraft loses. My conclusion was that US had apsolutely air dominance during battle

Perun Gromovnik, correct. What the UN forces (US) didn't have was decent leadership at the army command level which was in denial (the intelligence was there and the Chinese had been very open and clear that they'd intervene if the UN troops approached the Yalu River). May be the greatest failure of US military leadership, with thousands of dead and wounded, both US, UN partners like the UK, Turkey and South Korean troops.

Highly recommend "The River and the Gauntlet", Defeat of the Eight Army by the Chinese Communist Forces, November 1950 by S.L.A.. Marshall.

Battles happened at the same time on the western side of the mountain ridge (the Marines were on the eastern side).

For story of eastern battles, read "East of Chosin: Entrapment and Breakout in Korea, 1950 (Volumes 1 & 2)" by Roy E. Appleman. Very depressing books.

Alot of vitriol for China making war propaganda when the US does the same thing. How many war movies glorifying US actions are there?

Yeah damn Yankees making war movies !!!! How 1984 of them !!!!

The US military regularly allows access to equipment, facilities, etc. for filming so long as it is portrayed in a positive light.

AFAIK … Very rarely does the military, especially ground combat units, allow their MBTs, APCs, IFVs, etc. to be used in the movies. I've never seen it. The WWII vehicles are from private owners and reenactors, etc. And many vehicles used are "vis-mods" made by the movie SPX crews, etc.,. Turning an existing chassis/hull into a vehicle that few running versions are still around. E.g. most WWII German or IJF AFVs …

E.g. "Kelly's Heroes" in 1970. The Tiger Is were Yugoslav Russian T34/85s with a lot of modification, etc. I think those M4s and Halftracks were part of the Yugo inventory too. They didn't belong to the US military. I'm pretty sure about that !

,Sniper, Lone Survivor, Black Hawk Down, Fury, Saving Private Ryan, etc.?

Very few if any vehicles used were US Military. Save for probably some of the Helicopters, and I'm not even sure about that.

E.g. The M1 MBT in Sniper IIRC was an old M48 with visual modifications to make it look like an M1. Fury, SPB, BoB, etc., the US Military provided no M4 Shermans, Halftracks, German Panzers, etc., for the movies. As those vehicles are no longer in their inventories. Save for on Post museums, etc. They normally don't go anywhere.

May need to bone up on AFV ID …

The only noteworthy thing about this is it shows the enormous clout China has in regards to global capitalist entertainment (since they always chase the money).

Yes very true. They have a lot of clout in many places, etc., in the USA. I expect one day when driving down the road. To see signs in both English & Mandarin. Like near the ROK DMZ. But Korean is on those signs along the border. Along with English & Chinese.

I found data that US Navy had 2-4 carriers and USMC had 2 escort carriers. USAF used southern airfields. I didnt find any data for Chinese and N Korean air forces during battle but I also didnt find any data of aircraft loses. My conclusion was that US had apsolutely air dominance during battle

Yes the US/UN had total air superiority. Yes, it was well known for those that study the war[like me and know you!]. The US/UN had air assets off the coast and on land. AFAIK no Chicom/Nork aircraft played any role at the Chosin.

Battles happened at the same time on the western side of the mountain ridge (the Marines were on the eastern side).

Yes even today the US 2ID's AOR is the Western Corridor along "MSR 1". At least that was the way it was when I was there. And years afterwards AFAIK.

gegrmita2 +1 No I don't think you understand … only the USA does propaganda movies. The PRC/CCP are really a bunch of swell guys. They would never do anything like that.

Director Guan Hu's war epic an ode to patriotic soldiers and the great Chinese people

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Armand

Military-entertainment complex

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Wow ! Didn't know the US Military had so many hands in so many movies. Of course it could be good for recruiting, etc. I think I heard with the first TOP GUN, USN recruiting went up.

I know much of movie the Green Berets was filmed at Ft. Benning, GA. The location of the SF Firebase was still called "John Wayne" Hill. Even when I was first there in '79. Actually did some training on and near that hill number of times over the years.

Some of "We Were Soldiers" was filmed at Benning. I recognized many of the locations.

But again, I know of very few if any current US Military vehicles were used in making movies. Loaned to the movie makers, etc.

Note: in Patton, that was the Spanish Army using all those former US made M47s, M48s, M24s, etc. The US sold them to the Spanish Army. long before the movie … As Spain is part of NATO.

That may be the same with Battle Of The Bulge" … Former US M47s being used as Tiger IIs …

I saw the Russian Airborne recruiting video online. It was excellent, made me want to join ! 🪂

I also saw the US Army & CIA recruiting videos … Both very "woke"/PC, etc., and an embarrassment. 😖

Forgot to mention :

It along with the near destruction of the 2nd Infantry Division at the same time are mostly long forgotten or never known.

As I mentioned I was with the 2ID, 22 months, '84-'85. With forward deployed M113 Mech Bn in 3d/2ID. Yes we knew the 2ID took heavy losses … but never heard they/we were "near destruction". I guess it is who you read, study, etc. Plus I'm sure I could find links online or in books, etc., that say the 2ID was almost destroyed or otherwise.

Of course I'll admit I am a bit biased …

At $769 USD million now.

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Interesting documentary

m.imdb.com/title/tt6186096

Thanks

Armand

No problem mate

If it comes to TV, with the 60-70 channels I get … I'll probably watch it. Interesting to hear the "other sides' " POV. Like Eastwood's "Flags Of Our Fathers' ", IIRC …

Legion, don't forget Schofield Barracks for "From Here To Eternity." That's the reason Captain Holmes is relieved in disgrace from his company command, rather than being promoted (as he was in the book). The Army insisted on that change as a precondition for filming.

At least we can read the book and see the seamier side of what our government is up to…..my guess is the Chinese version of the Chosin Reservoir doesn't include the scene where the US Air Force converts Mao's son into a crispy critter with a little napalm for sneaking outside the cave to cook himself an illicit breakfast with stolen eggs….

I don't know that you can consider the attendance and box office take of the art of a totalitarian regime to be strictly comparable to what a free society produces. Official compulsion can go a long way toward suborning attendance, even before the bureaucrats start fiddling with the statistics.

This used to be something Americans implicitly understood. In the 1970s, when Doonesbury's (DOONESBURY, people!) Uncle Duke (a complete pastiche on Hunter S Thompson) was American ambassador to China, there was a hilarious scene where Duke is asking his interpreter about an album's sales, and she quotes an astronomical figure. The former "Rolling Stone" writer is staggered, and starts asking her questions – "what does this sticker say?" "Contains hit single, ‘Everyone is Rejoicing Over the Wiping Out of the Four Pests." "Oh, NO WONDER!"

There's an art to not being taken in by totalitarian BS. Plenty of people are still swallowing ideas Goebbels publicized; we shouldn't make the mistake of taking the Chinese propaganda at face value.

Legion, don't forget Schofield Barracks for "From Here To Eternity." That's the reason Captain Holmes is relieved in disgrace from his company command, rather than being promoted (as he was in the book). The Army insisted on that change as a precondition for filming.

Didn't know that … but I can see why the Army had them make that change.

guess is the Chinese version of the Chosin Reservoir doesn't include the scene where the US Air Force converts Mao's son into a crispy critter with a little napalm for sneaking outside the cave to cook himself an illicit breakfast with stolen eggs….

Yes, they may not include that scene. But it would be a good one !!!

we shouldn't make the mistake of taking the Chinese propaganda at face value.

Indeed … never under estimate your enemy … and let there be no doubt … they are our enemy.

Yep. But like a lot of totalitarian regimes, they aren't nearly as powerful, as determined, or as strong as they appear to be. Their actions over the past decade have galvanized their neighbors into an alliance that essentially encircles them, and sits astride their line of supply for oil. The real question is whether, like the Nazis and the Japanese, this will goad them into an offensive before the conditions for it worsen, or whether the Party will take a more realistic tack, understanding that their position is going to weaken, rather than improve.

I don't know what they will do, but I know this: the CCCP is not a Soviet-model Marxist-Leninist party devoted to socialism. Insofar as the governing ideology resembles anything recognizable in the Western world, it resembles national socialism, with a similar belief in the greatness of the Han Chinese, and a willingness to organize around the principle of the supreme leader.

I watched movie, it is interested. Does any one know wich weapons used PLA

Insofar as the governing ideology resembles anything recognizable in the Western world, it resembles national socialism, with a similar belief in the greatness of the Han Chinese, and a willingness to organize around the principle of the supreme leader.

Indeed, China has evolved into a Fascist state.

Does any one know wich weapons used PLA

Didn't see the movie yet. But during the Korean War, the PLA used a lot of WWII Russian weapons.

And yes the PRC/CCP are fascists … among many other things, and none to few of them "good" …

When I look at the image the Chinese military portrays to the public, they seem more serious about war fighting than the American military. This doesn't translate into combat effectiveness, but I can only imagine which side will be more effective after decades of such messaging….

YouTube link

Armand

Chinese military portrays to the public, they seem more serious about war fighting than the American military.

Hard to be serious about war fighting training when it is dominated by wokeness, CRT, equity, diversity, etc. E.g. when flying as PAX/cargo in a UH-1, UH-60, etc. I didn't care anything about the pilots personal feelings, etc. Just so they are very capable, skilled, etc. at flying that bird. Getting my troops, comrades, me(!) etc. on the ground safely. Plus put us in the right place. Other than that, I don't care about anything else about the personal traits of the aircrews. Save for can they do their JOBs!? 🚁

This doesn't translate into combat effectiveness,

Let's hope we never have to find out.