ScottWashburn | 28 Sep 2021 5:26 p.m. PST |
I'm sure this must be a topic which has come up before, but a search here on TMP and also various Google searches have not turned up a clear answer. It's pretty definite that the 42nd, 79th, and 92nd wore the kilt. But beyond that it gets uncertain. Anyone know for sure? |
John the OFM | 28 Sep 2021 6:14 p.m. PST |
The Cameronians and the Highland Light Infantry did not. But, here I am. A total AWI fanatic, ignorant of Napoleonics, stepping on my … |
Camcleod | 28 Sep 2021 7:50 p.m. PST |
Depends on when. The 42nd, 79th, and 92nd wore the kilt in 1815. The 73rd, 71st, 78th, 93rd, 100th, 116th wore them during the Rev. & Nap. wars as well. (From Osprey 'Wellington's Highlanders') |
John the OFM | 28 Sep 2021 9:10 p.m. PST |
I wouldn't be too sure about the American Revolution. Most of the Highland regiments switched to overalls once they got off the boat, mostly due to the climate and the terrain. It was so rare to wear the kilt that special mention was made when they actually did. For example, the Highlanders at Penobscot. That was in Maine, where the mosquitoes were probably fierce. And it does get cold in Maine. So, once they repelled Paul Revere, and the weather started getting chilly….. And I'm not talking about trews. I mean actual overalls. |
GildasFacit | 29 Sep 2021 3:19 a.m. PST |
Wrong revolution John – he means the French one. |
Steamingdave2 | 29 Sep 2021 5:31 a.m. PST |
@John the OFM. Highlanders grow up with ferocious Scottish midges, a few colonial mosquitoes would not cause them to abandon their kilts! |
42flanker | 29 Sep 2021 5:56 a.m. PST |
@Steamingdave2 Ah but they did. In India, white pantaloons worn by Highland corps were known as 'mosquito trousers.' Despite all campaign vicissitudes, the kilt remained regulation uniform for Highland corps throughout. The Highland Light Infantry -1809.03.20 71st (Glasgow Highland Light Infantry) Regiment of Foot -1810 71st (Highland) Regiment of Foot (Light Infantry) - were thenceforth 'Highland' in name only @John the OFM The 26th Cameronians were not a Highland regiment. Whereas the 79th (Highland-Cameronian Volunteers) Regiment of Foot were |
Prince of Essling | 29 Sep 2021 9:01 a.m. PST |
Lawson page 36, Volume 5 says "During the Napoleonic Wars the belted plaid and sporran were worn only in full dress by officers. The men wore fly plaid, i.e. a small piece of tartan attached to the left shoulder on the same occasions. On service all these items were laid aside. ………Upto and during the Corunna Campaign, the officers wore the kilt while on service but after that grey or white pantaloons and Hessian boots or trousers and gaiters were worn, the first probably as the result of Wellington's permission for infantry officers to ride on the march." Page 40 has "Major Mackay Scobie states that there were only three kilted regiments in wellington's campaigns in Spain and France, the 42nd, 79th and 92nd." |
MajorB | 29 Sep 2021 10:13 a.m. PST |
And it does get cold in Maine. So, once they repelled Paul Revere, and the weather started getting chilly….. The kilt was specifically designed as an all weather all purpose garment. |
42flanker | 29 Sep 2021 11:49 a.m. PST |
"The kilt was specifically designed as an all weather all purpose garment." Not so well suited, though, for infantry of the line shivering in cantonment on the Rapidan or sleeping on their arms in the snow on the banks of the Rhine. In both major American campaignsof the C18th, Highland troops took to wearing leg protection of some sort; Indian leggings during the Seven Years War and pantaloons or trousers during the AWI. During the winter of 1794-95 in Holland, the weather was so severe, Highland troops were also supplied with pantaloons. As well as the mosquitos trousers of Indian service, troop sent to the West Indies in the 1790s were provided with pantaloons of 'Russia duck.' In the Peninsula, even before the 71st were converted to 'trousered' light infantry, their philabegs became so ragged it was necessary to convert the cloth into trousers. Through the same process, with replacement plaids in short supply, in the 42nd marching out of Spain into France as many men were wearing tartan trousers as still wore the kilt, and the hummel bonnet, from which the feathers had long disappeared, was worn with "a little red feather on the front, the same as on a shako." In 1815, normal service was restored and proper soldiering could resume. None of that malarky in the Crimea |
Prince of Essling | 29 Sep 2021 2:28 p.m. PST |
For discussion of Highland Dress see "Scobie, I. H. Mackay. "HIGHLAND MILITARY DRESS. A SHORT HISTORICAL REVIEW." Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research, vol. 1, no. 2, Society for Army Historical Research, 1921, pp. 44–55," link |
dibble | 29 Sep 2021 2:56 p.m. PST |
The Prince's information is the one you should go for. Osprey may have illustrations of other Scottish Regiments in tartan Kilts or trews but it was only the 42nd, 79th and 92nd that was known to have worn them under Wellington's command. |
42flanker | 30 Sep 2021 2:11 a.m. PST |
There is perhaps a distinction to be made between what was the regulation uniform and what was worn at any given time on active service. The 74th and 78th, both Highland corps, served under Wellesley in India but were supplied with round hats pantaloons in response to local conditions; as were the 73rd Highland Regt,in India from 1781-1806 (initially as 2nd Bn 42nd). Within the timescale of this board, the 71st,72nd,73rd,74th,75th,& 91st were all kilted regiments until their Highland status was removed in March-April 1809. IIRC the 71st had arrived in Portugal having yet to receive a uniform issue following their return from South America. Hence their wearing trews made up from remnants of kilts. Technically, though, they were still a Highland regiment at Vimeiro. Their piper had retained the kilt, it seems. Of course, lest we forget, Hon. Arthur Wesley/Wellesley was first commissioned as Ensign in the 73rd Highland Regiment. Given that the regiment was in India until 1806, and within a year Ensign Wesley took promotion as Lieutenant into the 76th Regiment* (also about to depart for India), it is unlikely he ever equipped himself as a Highland officer but the image of young Arthur in bonnet and belted plaid is intriguing. Whether the 73rd served under Wellesley in India, I am not sure. {* The 76th Hindoostan Regiment later united with the 33rd Regt to become 2nd Bn. The Duke of Wellington's Regiment} |
ScottWashburn | 30 Sep 2021 3:55 a.m. PST |
So would it be safe to say that for the Peninsula and Waterloo campaigns the only regiments likely to be in kilts were the 42nd, 79th, and 92nd? Would any of the other regiments mentioned been in tartan trews? |
Steamingdave2 | 30 Sep 2021 5:36 a.m. PST |
@42flanker. My comment regarding midges was, of course, tongue in cheek. Re 71st, agree about the state of their philabegs in the Peninsula. The book "With Wellington in the Peninsula", edited by Paul Cowan, is an update of "Vicissitudes in the Life of a Scottish Soldier" , published in 1827 and apparently ghost-written by a former officer, Robert Howell based on memoirs of three former soldiers of the 71st. In it, the narrator confirms the state of the uniforms. He also refers to soldiers of the regiment selling the feathers from their bonnets in 1808; apparently, fashionable Portuguese ladies were willing to buy the feathers. Some men actually stole feathers from comrades, as they could get a dollar a feather from middlemen. |
Prince of Essling | 30 Sep 2021 7:33 a.m. PST |
According to Lawson: 71st on return from Buenos Aires were issued with tartan trews and feathered bonnets and served in this uniform in Portugal until 1809. According to Scobie, I. H. Mackay. "HIGHLAND MILITARY DRESS. A SHORT HISTORICAL REVIEW from 1810 dressed as ordinary light infantry. Lawson says: 72nd, 74th, 75th and 91st were equipped as for ordinary line infantry. |
Steamingdave2 | 30 Sep 2021 9:23 a.m. PST |
@Prince of Essling. Lawson appears to be correct. The author of "Vicissitudes…. " refers to "new tartan trowsers were served out, our old ones being in a miserable tattered state, owing to the effects of our campaign". This was after Vimiero in 1808. Officers were wearing white or grey trousers, only pipers retained the kilt at this time. I think 71st also retained kilted pipers after being redesignated as Light Infantry, although this was only after protests from the regiment. |
42flanker | 30 Sep 2021 9:26 a.m. PST |
"Lawson says: 72nd, 74th, 75th and 91st were equipped as for ordinary line infantry." From March-April 1809. "My comment regarding midges was, of course, tongue in cheek." Somewhat the lady mosquito's posture if given free vein. |
42flanker | 30 Sep 2021 9:30 a.m. PST |
"Would any of the other regiments mentioned been in tartan trews" Once the Peninsula troops were re-equipped, the remaining Highland corps would have been in the kilt. As noted, they had emerged from Spain in a ragged mix of the kilt and tartan trousering. The only regiment taking the field in tartan trousers thereafter would appear to have been the 93rd Highlanders who wore tartan trousers when they disembarked for the New Orleans operation. As was pointed out earlier, Highland officers had been wearing pantaloons or trousers from ca 1809, allowing them to ride on the line of march. |
dibble | 30 Sep 2021 1:24 p.m. PST |
By posting "Under Wellington's command" It would mean 1809-1815. |
robert piepenbrink | 30 Sep 2021 4:41 p.m. PST |
I remember this debate from c. 1970! (There was a morale +1 for kilted highlanders, and no points upcharge.) The final decision was a max of three for the Napoleonic Wars, and I would assume those three--42nd, 79th and 92nd--were the ones intended. I have recently seen the observation that effectively, they'd run the Highlands out of men during the French Revolution. They were having to recruit the usual mix of English and disproportionate Irish to keep the other "Highland" regiments up to strength, and it was hard to stuff a cockney or an Irishman into a kilt, so they kept the formal designation while abandoning the costume. |
42flanker | 30 Sep 2021 11:04 p.m. PST |
@Robert piepenbrink "so they kept the formal designation while abandoning the costume." The formal designation went as well, except for a nod to their Scottish origin for the 71st. They and the 72nd, 73rd, 74th, 75th and 91st became trousered regiments of the line for the duration, and beyond. There was an incremental return to Highland or at least Scottish status during the course of the C19th, sometimes resented by regiments like the 73rd and 75th that had come to regard themselves as wholly 'English.' The Black Watch had problems recruiting to strength in the early 1790s because, it was said, of resentment of the clearances which had begun in the Highlands and the role of troops in that process. However, there was no problem raising new Highland regiments at the start of the French Wars, some of which went on to serve with renown: the 78th, 79th, 92nd & 93rd, for example. Fifteen years later however, the Highland recruiting pool had begun to run dry. Hence the 1809 changes. By 1800, Highland Gaels were no longer in the majority in the 42nd with unemployed weavers and other Lowland Scots making up numbers along with Englishmen and Irishmen. |
4th Cuirassier | 01 Oct 2021 2:32 a.m. PST |
I'm a bit bemused to hear that the kilt was found to be an impractical garment on campaign. In a country where kilts are worn without underwear and the national plant is a waist-high thistle, I'd have thought they had noticed the practicality issues but dismissed them long since. |
Trajanus | 02 Oct 2021 6:44 a.m. PST |
Perhaps they like the pain! |