Tango01 | 20 Sep 2021 4:46 p.m. PST |
…Brigade at Fredericksburg "Another anniversary of the battle of Fredericksburg has come and gone. Mention of the December 1862 battle immediately brings to mind the repeated Federal attacks against Marye's Heights that all failed to reach their objective. One of the most famous of those attacks was by the Army of the Potomac's heralded Irish Brigade; going into action with 1,200 men, the five regiments suffered 45% casualties by the time their action was done. The story, already rife with drama, has morphed recently into a legend far more dramatic: The Irish Brigade fought Confederates who were also Irish! The two opposing sides of Irishmen, having immigrated to their new country, now found themselves on the same battlefield shooting each other to pieces. Sometimes it's a regiment of Confederate Irishmen, sometimes it's even a full Confederate Irish Brigade. Sometimes the story goes so far as to suggest that Robert E. Lee himself feared the Confederate Irish would not shoot their Union brethren, and so had reserves moved up just in case. Except, there's a problem: The whole story is fake. There wasn't a Confederate Irish Brigade (or even regiment) at the base of Marye's Heights. So how did the impression that there was get started?…" From Emerging Civil War Blog link Armand
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John the OFM | 20 Sep 2021 5:02 p.m. PST |
Like Irishmen never shot at Irishmen before or since? They seemed to have no problem with it during The Troubles. |
Gorgrat | 20 Sep 2021 5:56 p.m. PST |
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DisasterWargamer | 20 Sep 2021 6:53 p.m. PST |
link They claim the only Irish regiment on the Confederates side was the 10th Tenn |
doc mcb | 20 Sep 2021 6:58 p.m. PST |
link Lots of books about Irish Confederates. |
DisasterWargamer | 20 Sep 2021 7:42 p.m. PST |
A number of sites with lots of Irish references – not all accurate – all claiming lots of confederate Irish companies, brigades and regiments link link Sons of Erin link Bloody Tinth link |
doc mcb | 20 Sep 2021 7:49 p.m. PST |
I expect it is a matter of definitions. There's really no question that lots of Irish fought for the South. I'd bet than there were some Irish companies with company flags, early on. NOT a Confederate Irish Brigade, but I really don't know about reigimental identities. There was Pat Cleburne! Who was Anglo-Irish, but still . . . . |
Timbo W | 21 Sep 2021 3:12 a.m. PST |
Its quite annoying that all these sorts of links pop up when I try looking for the Irish Catholic Confederation of the 1640s! |
OSCS74 | 21 Sep 2021 7:38 a.m. PST |
Timbo W, seems like disproving myths are more important than facts. |
Dan Cyr | 21 Sep 2021 9:29 a.m. PST |
There were individuals of many countries and religions that fought for the Confederacy (but no blacks, slave or otherwise…that's one myth that seems finally to have disappeared). Not sure how willing were many of these troops (consider the units at Fort Jackson below New Orleans which were made of: "During the Civil War Old Fort Jackson was garrisoned by Confederate soldiers like the Irish Jasper Greens, Republican Blues….in 1861." chsgeorgia.org/Civil-War Of course, it is a little known history that the Confederate troops in Fort Jackson that rose in a mutiny and overthrew their officers. The Irish immigrants to the states were usually poor, not welcomed by the large percentage of the population that were bigots against them and the vast bulk of them importantly dis-barked mostly at northern ports where they could find employment in the northern forces in known Irish units under pre-war very well known Irish leaders. Swept off the streets at the start of the war, there were most likely many "southern" Irish, but most likely there were few that thought supporting the Confederacy was all that much different than supporting the British in Ireland. And, to point out a major difference between Irish motives between the north and south, the northern Irish were motivated politically by the future intent to gain training and experience for their intent to throw the British out of Ireland, hence the repeated attempts to invade Canada after the Civil War by the Fenian Raids 1866-1871. link |
doc mcb | 21 Sep 2021 11:46 a.m. PST |
Not none, Dan: Levi Miller was real. Highly unusual, yes. |
Tango01 | 21 Sep 2021 3:31 p.m. PST |
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Trajanus | 22 Sep 2021 9:02 a.m. PST |
There was Pat Cleburne! Who was Anglo-Irish, but still Cleburne was born in Ovens, County Cork, which makes him 100% Irish as far as I'm concerned. The only "Anglo" thing about him was the three years he spent in the British army. If he was "Anglo" so was my Great Grandmother! |
Bill N | 22 Sep 2021 2:42 p.m. PST |
"Few" perhaps in relative terms Dan, but far more than none. The most obvious example of Irish that I am familiar with who had bought into the southern cause were the two Irish companies that were part of Alexandria Virginia's pre-war 6th battalion (which later became the 17th Virginia Infantry). I suspect if you ran the rolls of the other pre-war Virginia volunteer units you would find a number of first or second generation Irishmen, but I am not aware of any other distinctly Irish companies in those prewar units. The First Virginia Bn. formed during the war was nicknamed the Irish Bn., but I had no idea how Irish it was in composition. It should not be a surprise that Irishmen who were in the south and were higher up than common laborer status would adopt many of the views of their non-Irish white neighbors. The other part of the story is even those Confederate units that would have probably started out heavily Irish would have begun losing that character as the war went on and the supply of Irish in the south was tapped out. |
Dn Jackson | 23 Sep 2021 2:36 a.m. PST |
The Confederates, including Irishmen, that mutinied in Forts Jackson and Saint Philip did so because they were cut off from any hope of relief since the Federal navy had shot it's way past the forts and controlled New Orleans. As such the troops had no hope of escape, reinforcement, or supply. It had nothing to do with their commitment to the South. |
Blutarski | 23 Sep 2021 2:17 p.m. PST |
Considerable numbers of Scots/Irish, Germans and even French Huguenots immigrated to the Carolinas during the time of Colonial America. The first Surgeon General of the Confederacy was a Huguenot descendant from South Carolina. B |
Trajanus | 28 Sep 2021 1:53 a.m. PST |
The founders of the Klan were Scottish so it's not all good news! |
Tango01 | 28 Sep 2021 3:47 p.m. PST |
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Trajanus | 29 Sep 2021 2:00 a.m. PST |
Yes it's weird but true. Although that's the original incarnation, right after the War, by a group of ex Confederate officers. It's had two more since then. |