Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Sep 2021 12:29 p.m. PST |
Head of the United States Central Command Gen. Kenneth McKenzie announced Friday that it is unlikely any ISIS-K members were killed in a Kabul drone strike on August 29, which led to the deaths of multiple civilian casualties… Fox News: link |
John the OFM | 17 Sep 2021 1:10 p.m. PST |
"Hey! It was an honest mistake! They all look alike, and besides the drone operators had been up all night!" |
OSCS74 | 17 Sep 2021 1:47 p.m. PST |
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Stryderg | 17 Sep 2021 1:49 p.m. PST |
Most accurate statement I heard from the Senate hearings: (paraphrased) Don't you think you should have confirmed who the target was BEFORE launching the strike? Makes you wonder how deep the incompetence goes. |
doc mcb | 17 Sep 2021 2:11 p.m. PST |
We will never know how deep because there is no accountability. |
SBminisguy | 17 Sep 2021 2:17 p.m. PST |
What are we paying these people for?!?!? Seriously. It's like the senior office core of the US military has devolved into something akin to France 1939! |
Dan Cyr | 17 Sep 2021 3:17 p.m. PST |
Was it a military strike or a CIA one? |
Stryderg | 17 Sep 2021 3:39 p.m. PST |
Military, as far as I've heard. The truth may never be known. |
Howler | 17 Sep 2021 5:57 p.m. PST |
Didn't General Milley say this was a "righteous" strike? |
John the OFM | 17 Sep 2021 7:08 p.m. PST |
This is for those who scoff that strikes like that are the best recruiting for those who hate us. "Aw, Gee. I'm soooo sorry!" |
doc mcb | 17 Sep 2021 7:25 p.m. PST |
link Cruz asks how we targeted the aid worker. Did the TALIBAN themselves give us the "intelligence"? |
Editor in Chief Bill | 17 Sep 2021 9:20 p.m. PST |
Sounds like the military was looking for a certain type of car being loaded with explosives, and mistook it for a similar car being loaded with water. |
HMS Exeter | 17 Sep 2021 9:38 p.m. PST |
I thought we were done in Afghanistan. This seems like dumping your girlfriend because you don't think she appreciates you, telling her, "I want nothing more to do with you." Only the next day you climb over her yard fence to take a dump in her flower beds. ??? |
torokchar | 18 Sep 2021 5:52 a.m. PST |
I think the Italian leadership in 1940 was more competent than today's USA leadership…… |
Legion 4 | 18 Sep 2021 8:35 a.m. PST |
The intel saw this car being loaded with water containers. Which was easily mistaken for containers of explosives for a VBIED. The secondary explosions were from the extra gas cans onboard the car. As I frequently say sadly CD is a state of nature in modern conflicts. Drone strikes and "smart" munitions does in fact limit CD. Being more accurate that other ordinance. But yes, again if the intel is off, etc., as we see here, CD occurs. When in fact many Drone strikes do kill their targets causing limited CD. Even in the 21st Century war is not "clean" … I thought we were done in Afghanistan. This drone strike occurred during the USA's hastily poorly planned exit from A'stan. Leaving many behind, a very poor showing for the USA's leadership from the very top. We are not done with A'stan. Jihadis from everywhere are flocking to A'stan. It will become a jihadis "paradise". AQ & ISIS can plan and train, etc., for their attacks on the West. Albeit the Taliban/AQ will be fighting with ISIS which may slow up the process ? The war with jihadis/terrorists is not over … |
deephorse | 18 Sep 2021 9:55 a.m. PST |
The war with jihadis/terrorists is not over … It will never be over. Haven't you learned that yet? |
Only Warlock | 18 Sep 2021 1:53 p.m. PST |
Well the Admin wanted a "Quick win" to show we were doing something after the suicide Bomber killed the US troops (plus over 100 Afghan civilians, of course). They didn't care if their Intel was good, they just wanted to look like they were doing something. You can look forward to this level of competence for at least a few more years, World. |
arealdeadone | 18 Sep 2021 1:58 p.m. PST |
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Legion 4 | 18 Sep 2021 6:52 p.m. PST |
It will never be over. Haven't you learned that yet? Yes I did … but my vote does not count. Haven't you learned that yet ? As I said, the war with them in not over … and it may not be for many decades or more. And in the long run it will cost them more than the West. Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Warlords, tribes, etc., etc., spend a lot of time killing each other.
You can look forward to this level of competence for at least a few more years, World. Bingo ! |
jamemurp | 20 Sep 2021 6:53 a.m. PST |
Here's a breakdown of the strike: link 10 dead civilians, including children. You can look forward to this level of competence for at least a few more years, World. Did you miss the last 20? This isn't new or isolated. US targeted killings have killed thousands of civilians. Rather than deal with it, the Obama administration just started presuming all those killed by drone strikes were terrorists. Trump continued the policy. There is almost no real accountability or oversight. At least Biden ended that particular fiasco, something the previous 3 US administrations were unwilling to do (precisely because of the political ramifications), but still shows little to no concern about the horrendous damage the US has done and continues to do with its military adventurism. |
Thresher01 | 20 Sep 2021 8:07 a.m. PST |
Yep, reports are they wanted a quick response and we got one, but they just targeted the wrong person(s)/family, with horrific results. Rumor has it that the highest people in our government approved the strike, so once again, batting 1,000%. Just goes to show the "over the horizon" capabilities being touted and lauded are a poor replacement for good intel and people on the ground. |
SBminisguy | 20 Sep 2021 8:57 a.m. PST |
At least Biden ended that particular fiasco, something the previous 3 US administrations were unwilling to do (precisely because of the political ramifications), but still shows little to no concern about the horrendous damage the US has done and continues to do with its military adventurism. Nah, Biden ended nothing except current US military involvement in Afghanistan -- there are still thousands of US citizens and green card holders that his team left behind, now largely in the hands of the Taliban. The biggest hostage crisis in American history. Why do you think the Biden Admin recently announced almost $70 USD million in "humanitarian aid" to the Taliban? The first payment… The previous Admin ended ISIS and tried to pull the Us from Syria, while General Milley and others tried to block it. The previous admin negotiated historic peace deals between Israel and multiple Arab states. The previous admin had a much more graceful exit strategy in place for Afghanistan that Biden and team wrecked the moment they took office. This all on the shoulders of Biden and the Obama team that staffs most of Biden's senior admin positions. |
Legion 4 | 20 Sep 2021 9:01 a.m. PST |
Thresher & SBminiguy +1/ea |
kcabai | 20 Sep 2021 9:31 a.m. PST |
Thresher & SBminiguy +1/ea |
Tortorella | 20 Sep 2021 10:19 a.m. PST |
I doubt we know much about all the CD over the past 20 years, but responsibility sits on a lot of shoulders regardless of their political affiliations. |
advocate | 20 Sep 2021 1:35 p.m. PST |
"They wanted a quick response" or "They wanted to prevent another such attack another such attack"? Potato, patAto. I guess it depends who you want to blame. This has been happening for a long time – it happened in London shortly after 7/7. You really can't blame a specific administration. |
arealdeadone | 20 Sep 2021 3:53 p.m. PST |
Did you miss the last 20? Alas people here are playing politics – every American leader since George W. and even Bill Clinton wears equal blame for poor decisions. |
Tortorella | 20 Sep 2021 3:59 p.m. PST |
Exactly. Every leader has played this game. Not a topic for blamer culture. |
Legion 4 | 20 Sep 2021 4:24 p.m. PST |
A lot of finger pointing … in many directions … Few clean hands. And again CD has been reduced/limited, but it is a factor in warfare we can't forget. Regardless … it has and will happen. Unless all warfare stops tomorrow. 🌈🎈🦄🍭🍭 |
arealdeadone | 20 Sep 2021 4:43 p.m. PST |
Legion, Drone strikes in this context aren't warfare. They are assassination tools. This isn't flying close air support or interdiction or strategic bombing. It's not like fighting in Syria or Nagorno-Karakbakh or Afghanistan when US troops were still there. The targets are often picked based on demographic data alone or in this instance, filling their car up with stuff!
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Legion 4 | 21 Sep 2021 7:49 a.m. PST |
Killing an enemy target is NOT an assassination … Killing the enemy is just that … killing the enemy. When is killing the enemy an assassination ? Answer : Never … Drones are just more surgical. Killing enemy leadership is a standard priority target i.e. – C3. Again … killing the enemy is NOT an assassination … Whether the enemy ranks from PVT to GEN … they are targets … Note also just saw a former Green Beret on the news saying he called in a Drone to support his troops. Used as an offensive weapons i.e. CAS … A successful drone strike – link
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Tortorella | 21 Sep 2021 8:53 a.m. PST |
Drones against enemy targets, people that want to kill us, makes sense to me. |
Legion 4 | 21 Sep 2021 9:06 a.m. PST |
Of course … whether you kill the enemy/people that want to kill us, with any form of air support it is a standard in modern warfare. If FA or a sniper is used it is not an assassination either. What is so hard to understand ? |
jamemurp | 21 Sep 2021 9:08 a.m. PST |
The previous Admin ended ISIS and tried to pull the Us from Syria, while General Milley and others tried to block it. The previous admin negotiated historic peace deals between Israel and multiple Arab states. The previous admin had a much more graceful exit strategy in place for Afghanistan that Biden and team wrecked the moment they took office.This all on the shoulders of Biden and the Obama team that staffs most of Biden's senior admin positions. Are you serious? Do you think the US withdrawal from Syria was any better than this mess? And please explain why in 4 years the previous administration couldn't have gotten us out of Afghanistan if their plan was so great? Here's a hint, just like Obama, they didn't want the image of US collapse in Afghanistan on their watch, especially before an election. Why else would you push timetables to the next guy? (I am not touching the statements regarding Israel as it's not relevant to this topic and gets into a whole other issue of consistent failure in US policy across administrations.) I also don't get the line that generals were undermining Trump. 1) He could have removed them at any point (see Esper- the POTUS can also remove joint chiefs of staff) and 2) they were more than happy to go along with missile strikes ordered by Trump in Syria and drone strike an Iranian general. They also didn't seem to interfere with 127e programs in Kenya, Somalia, Mali, Niger, etc. Oh and it was Milley that was part of Trump's photo op after tear gassing a church. So either Trump was not up to reigning in his military staff, or they really weren't any more a problem than arrogant political military leadership always is. |
Legion 4 | 21 Sep 2021 9:14 a.m. PST |
If I say anything it would be considered political … but my "Facts" seem to differ from yours … 'nuff said … 🤐🤐 |
SBminisguy | 22 Sep 2021 8:08 a.m. PST |
Are you serious? Do you think the US withdrawal from Syria was any better than this mess? Oh, much better and easier since we had a smaller footprint. Except the generals lied about how many troops we had in Syria, so when Trump ordered them out -- they didn't follow orders, yes?? That's basically mutiny, is it not? And for all the wailing about "we abandoned the Kurds," we cut ties with one of dozens of Kurdish factions, one aligned with the PKK --- and within 24 hours they had cut a deal with the Assad regime. It was actually Obama's intrusion into Syria and his disastrous Middle East policies that put the whole deadly mess there on steroids. 1. There was no ISIS until Obama disastrously pulled our troops out of Iraq, creating a power vacuum that was filled by Al Queda hold overs that reconstituted into ISIS. 2. Then Obama created a civil war in Libya by deciding to, unprovoked, attack Libya, and tear down the "hemmed into a box" Khadaffi regime. 3. So now we get to the Syrian Civil War which almost ended before it began except that Obama decided to back anti-Assad factions to try and topple Assad ('cause that worked out well when he helped topple Mubarak in Egypt, and then Khadaffi in Libya). But all the "secular" factions were quickly killed or absorbed by the islamist and ideological factions -- and the US ended up shipping guns and jihadis from eastern Libya (the Benghazi area in particular) on Turkish cargo ships, through southern Turkey and into Syria where with US help the Syrian civil war spiraled into bloody madness. Benghazi…why does that sound familiar? Oh yeah -- remember that little thing where a US ambassador and 5 other Americans were killed by a jihadi group *we'd been supporting* and the Obama admin pretended it was all about a youtube video?? The real deal was an arms deal and relationship turned bad. Anyways, back to Syria. With ISIS getting defacto backing by the US it metastized into the Caliphate and ran amok butchering Kurds. Yazidis, Christians and other muslims who weren't pure enough…leaving the only "rational" party as the Assad regime which at least wasn't committing genocide against large populaces. So the US was backing crazy factions under Obama, and some non-crazy factions, among which are various Kurdish factions. So how we doing so far? Let's sum up – Syria was shaky, the US pushed it into Civil War, then Syria's allies of Russia and Iran dive in and now they are fighting a mishmash of factions -- pro-Assad vs anti-Assad vs jihadi/ISIS, vs various ethnic militias trying to survive. The US ended up with various allies of convenience, some of which were really fraking nasty, all in order to topple the Assad regime which had almost ZERO national security value to the US unless a pro-democratizing regime replaced it, but that idea died real fast in that civil war. So when Trump came into office he prioritized eliminating ISIS and then getting out. So we started to disentangle from trying to topple Assad and worked with various groups to smash ISIS, and as ISIS was pushed out or wiped out of an area the US then moved resources out as well -- at least those that US generals felt like moving out, since we know know that Milley and other top brass lied about. They should all get charged with Article 94. What is Article 94 of the UCMJ? A service member of the United States armed forces who seeks to overthrow lawful civil or military order by seditious or mutinous acts either through violence or disobedience could face punishment under Article 94 of the UCMJ. Accusations of mutiny and sedition are some of the most serious in the military. Disobeying direct orders, lying to the president and running your own off the books military ops would seem to qualify… |
Legion 4 | 22 Sep 2021 8:29 a.m. PST |
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