| Gorgrat | 19 Sep 2021 4:30 p.m. PST |
doc mcb Then I'm not sure what we are differing on. In that sense, sure, we are being destroyed. |
Escapee  | 19 Sep 2021 6:27 p.m. PST |
Gorgrat: I realize that you may not agree and fully support your right to your views. I think Steve is telling you that it was expected, based on past experience, that the counting of the early ballots and mail-ins, which happens after the election day ballots are counted, would tend to be Democratic votes. Republicans are more likely to vote on the day, rather than early. Their ballots are more likely to be counted first based on past experience. The final tally has become less likely to be ready in the time frame we are accustomed to. Historically, election results have been delayed due to the need to check for accurate totals. In 2000, Bush was declared the winner well after election day in an extremely close election with numerous recounts in Florida. The 1876 election also was a lengthy process. |
| Gorgrat | 20 Sep 2021 12:20 p.m. PST |
Tortorella I realize you are attempting to be civil about this, and it is appreciated. That said: Nonsense. I was there the night of. I was there the morning after. I later saw the testimony of federal employees, including mail carriers, who backed my version. No one is going to convince me against my own senses and memories. If that happens, then this is just the matrix, and nothing you have experienced is any more valid than anything I have experienced. Now, what I would ask you to do, is play devil's advocate on this with yourself. Go back honestly through your own memories, divorcing yourself from the result you wanted, and ask yourself whether your beliefs or mine have more 'explaining away' required. |
 Legion 4 | 20 Sep 2021 4:36 p.m. PST |
This type of topic quickly becomes polarized. And nothing can or will change minds. |
| Escapee | 20 Sep 2021 8:29 p.m. PST |
And life as a moderate is never easy! |
| Gorgrat | 20 Sep 2021 11:43 p.m. PST |
Yep. Cooked unit. That's me. |
| Legion 4 | 21 Sep 2021 8:33 a.m. PST |
who would have thought so many far right cooked units liked miniature wargaming? That goes both ways … 👈👉👆👇 |
| SBminisguy | 22 Sep 2021 7:56 a.m. PST |
This type of topic quickly becomes polarized. And nothing can or will change minds. Yep -- though I imagine if you think someone was using loaded dice at your game table and you asked to see the dice, only to be met by angry denials, being accused of being a racist and a buncha gaslighting…folks here wouldn't put up with it… |
| Legion 4 | 22 Sep 2021 8:32 a.m. PST |
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| Escapee | 22 Sep 2021 4:34 p.m. PST |
For me this feels like the dice are good, many confirm this and no evidence that the dice are loaded is ever found after months in the courts? But the accusations keep coming, branch out into other things and we all go home vowing to never play each other again. But still we keep hearing the dice are from Venezuela. We start a club of solo gamers who never meet. Everybody loses. |
| arealdeadone | 22 Sep 2021 10:49 p.m. PST |
Another funny Milley cartoon:
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| Gorgrat | 23 Sep 2021 10:43 a.m. PST |
Tortorella No evidence after months on the courts? Or we just have 2 supreme court justices with any courage. Btw. That doughnut on your plate? Its mine. You remember that, right? Me setting that doughnut on your plate? Because, if you don't remember it that way, well, things might get ugly. I mean, my buddies and I, who've been burning and looting cities for months on end, might just decide to burn down this cafeteria, and then claim you did it. And we don't want that, do we? So I'm just going to take that doughnut off your plate. Because its mine after all. Right? There's a good boy… |
| Escapee | 23 Sep 2021 8:28 p.m. PST |
Gorgrat, I hope we all fare well and get through this era, end up in a good place. But we are really stuck just now. |
| Legion 4 | 24 Sep 2021 10:06 a.m. PST |
Yes, stuck now … but hopefully by 2022 & 2024 this all with change. For the better … 'nuff said …🤐
Another funny Milley cartoon: That being said, it is too bad many don't realize/know what all those tabs, patches, devices, metals, etc., mean on Milley's uniform[not the silly one in cartoon!]. At one time he was an amazingly qualified, trained, experienced, soldier. Frankly I am in awe. We used to say, when seeing that well of a decorated soldier, "few could shine his boots" … I know I couldn't … |
| Escapee | 24 Sep 2021 11:36 a.m. PST |
I agree Legion, go after the man's recent actions if you want but respect the uniform. He was and is a soldier. Leave the uniform out of it, don't dis it like for all the others who wear it. |
| Legion 4 | 25 Sep 2021 10:50 a.m. PST |
👍👍 Most here can't even imagine/fathom what it takes to be an Airborne Ranger Green Beret. I served with some of them as well as an Airborne Ranger former SEAL was assigned my Mech Co. The mental and physical challenges, etc., involved in that training alone. Most would think they died and went in Hell … |
| doc mcb | 26 Sep 2021 12:58 p.m. PST |
The Spartans were pretty impressive physical specimens, too, and they had a neat constitution. And a bunch of helots they had to keep suppressing. And they got whipped at Sphacteria. |
| Gorgrat | 27 Sep 2021 1:26 a.m. PST |
Milley's awards? To be honest, I don't know. I was in the army quite some years ago. Just an enlisted guy. Intel. Joined up just after Grenada. We won that one, btw. Anyway, as I'm sure you guys are well aware, there are such things as "badge hunters" in all branches. First sergeants and majors are both famous for becoming five jump chumps just to get wings they can wear on their uniforms and never do anything else with. I have heard rumors (I'll admit I don't quite believe them) of career officers who never saw a shot fired in anger, but stepped off the plane in Grenada, hung around for a few days, and came back home to receive their CIB. Truth? Dunno. I will say that nothing I know to be true about Milley impresses me. I wouldn't be too terribly surprised if some of those awards were rather questionable. |
| Escapee | 27 Sep 2021 8:01 a.m. PST |
Platoon leader 82nd Airborne, 10th Mountain Division brigade commander. Multiple combat assignments. Experience and credentials at many levels, a long list of hands on experience. Special forces means a lot of specials skills. Listen to Legion – he knows. That uniform is no joke. This guy is real. If Milley used poor judgement with the Trump situation, then he should resign. He has already been convicted. It may be impossible for people to imagine that the commander in chief was a problem. Miley will certainly explain himself, maybe he was right, maybe not. But it's too late. There is no longer any truth that can overcome today's emotions. |
| Legion 4 | 27 Sep 2021 10:05 a.m. PST |
Anyway, as I'm sure you guys are well aware, there are such things as "badge hunters" in all branches. First sergeants and majors are both famous for becoming five jump chumps just to get wings they can wear on their uniforms and never do anything else with.I have heard rumors (I'll admit I don't quite believe them) of career officers who never saw a shot fired in anger, but stepped off the plane in Grenada, hung around for a few days, and came back home to receive their CIB. I was a career Army Officer, '79-'90 as I have mentioned. I know I went to schools & courses, etc., to get the training and become a better soldier & leader. Most of the schools & courses I went thru you don't get badges for. And many of the schools I was sent to and not requested to go. I was sent … No problem … it was part of my current job, etc. I did volunteer for some schools. As an Infantry Officer you were expected to in some cases. And yes, in a bunch of Alpha-Males you compete in one way or another. Almost daily … That is the "society" you are a member of. Alphas … aggressive capable leaders, warriors, etc. When seeing an Officer, NCO or Enlisted with certain badges, etc., you know he under went that training and qualified to wear those devices on their uniform. It is an "initial measure of the man". But after that he has to prove he is worthy of those badges, etc., so to speak …
As a Mech(M113) Co. Cdr at Benning with a Mech Hvy Bde that was part of the 18th Airborne Corps. I sent my troops and officers to many of the schools/course, etc., available. Benning being the home of the Infantry, there were many courses on post. I.e. Airborne, Ranger, Pathfinder, Sniper, NBC, etc. All good skills for infantrymen to have. If they can successfully pass the standards of that course/training.
That was my experience … that may not be others … If Milley used poor judgement Yes if you study history as I know many here do. A know I did & do … Sometimes a leader no matter how well trained & experienced, etc., he may make a poor decision. I still remember to this day, as an ROTC Cadet. One of our instructors, his name was CPT Steele[yes his real name!]. He had one or two tours in Vietnam. He looked right at me after some sort of training. He said, " Cadet … Good initiative … poor judgement …" … I tried to never get that "rating" again. But yes on a [rare !?] occasion … it still happened. But less and less as I progressed thru my career. But yes … again sometimes it still happened. |
| Escapee | 27 Sep 2021 10:59 a.m. PST |
Thank you Legion. CPT Steele! You could not make that up! I understand Milleys service record and what it means. This does not mean he did not make a mistake in the end. But it does mean he deserves a lot more respect than he has gotten here, until he can be heard. Maybe he was a hero, and we will never be allowed to hear it. Maybe he made a bad decision in a tight spot. Or maybe he really was a traitor, although I think this is probably political BS. His career is already over. |
