"Treason?" Topic

"Open and transparent audit…"
Oh, you're a funny man.

Please don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. Half of us now do not trust the election process to be honest. Deny all you like, but that distrust by tens of millions is a hard fact. And its consequences are very bad and mostly yet to come. A LOT is riding on the CONDUCT of the 2022 and 2024 elections, as distinct from the OUTCOME which decides who the winners are.

"Open and transparent audit…"
Oh, you're a funny man.

Why funny? There's a process that can be followed from other contested elections where all concerned parties have access to a managed audit to verify the results. But this is not what's happened, instead the legal path to conduct an audit in the key States in question are controlled by Democrats -- politicians and judges, who have fought like h3ll to block all audit attempts.

Please don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. Half of us now do not trust the election process to be honest.

And this is the result, this sentiment held by as much as half the electorate. That's not a good thing. In California, I went to cast my vote on the Recall ballot.

*2 of 3 listed polling stations in my zip code were closed, and the one that was in my area closed before 8pm – so it closed early.

*No ID required to vote -- in fact the poll workers could not even *look* an ID under current election laws. They just wanted you to tell 'em an address.

*No proof of voting. There was no ballot stub, no receipt, nothing.

So did I actually cast a vote? Dunno.

Given the Chinese:

- hacking our computers;
- stealing our technology and data on citizens;
- copying our commercial products;
- firing lasers at our pilots in attempts to blind them, temporarily or permanently;
- conducting a Taran Attack on our recon bird;
- harassing our aircraft and naval vessels, and stealing one of our towed sonar arrays;
- flooding our country with illegal, Chinese-made drugs, many of which are counterfeit and killing our citizens by the thousands – Fentanyl;
- killing our pets with sub-par, and/or contaminated food and treats;
- knowingly spreading the Covid virus to the USA and the rest of the world while locking down their own cities;
- and infiltraing out universities and businesses with spies; etc., etc., ad nauseum, we are already in a "war" or conflict with China, even though our many/most of leaders won't acknowledge it.

Thresher, yes, and at some point we are going to have to expose and defang the Copperheads who are taking the Chinese money and commands.

doc mcb

Capitalism has its problems, and that is one of them. The biggest wallet speaks the loudest, and dictatorships can speak very loud indeed by just starving their people and throwing money to foreign politicians.

That is why capitalism is an excellent economic system, but is disastrous as a nation's only foundation. Ethics and religion are required for that.

Whether God is real or not doesn't matter. We still need him badly.

This unhinged general is using this controversy to chum up book sales, aided by his political allies. Wonder if he'll add a chapter on his fine leadership qualities as exhibited during the Afghanistan rout.

Well, truth matters, but yes, we need God.

I've not taken the time to wade completely through this long thread, so if this point has been covered, I apologize.
Aside from the question of whether Milly committed treason or violated his oath of office, should the focus of any discussion on this topic also be on the cause & effect of what led the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to take such a drastic step as outlined in Woodward's book?
Numerous posters on this thread have readily accepted Woodard's account of Milly's conversation with Li. Accordingly, should they not also accept his account of an unhinged, narcissistic, desperate president who was casting about for a way to overturn an election, including possibly starting a war with China? If all the facts contained in the book are true, then didn't we have a president who was considering alternatives that were, at the very least, treasonous? If so, it would seem to me that there were huge mitigating factors, perhaps compelling ones, for Milly's conduct.
The bottom line is that this discussion shouldn't have devolved into a political argument along party lines, as, IMO, it has, with each side cherry picking facts that support their individual bias.

Tiger, and the evidence for that accusation -- "an unhinged, narcissistic, desperate president who was casting about for a way to overturn an election, including possibly starting a war with China" -- is WHAT, exactly? Must be really convincing to support such a charge, right? So let's hear it. Or is it just Miley's word?

Btw, just so the Milley defenders here can see just how freakin' dangerous this is. The US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff contacted a hostile adversary, bypassing the President, and reassured them that he would he warn them if the US President planned any actions. And by further telling the House Speaker (whose office and senior democrats associated with her we know have been compromised by China) that he was basically in control of our nuclear response -- he was telling China that our deterrent forces were OFFLINE for several weeks!

This man is one of the most unhinged, dangerously incompetent and hyperpolitical senior officers in US military history.

@sbsminisguy

I suspect that all close elections have automatic recounts, I know they do in the UK. However, a number of audits have been carried out, ALL CONFIRMED THE ORIGINAL RESULTS.

But it seems that evidence is not enough for the supporters of the previous guy, they prefer hearsay and made-up ramblings.

Or. possibly, we simply do not TRUST the people assuring us all is well -- when it very plainly is not. But keep calling us names, that'll win us over for certain.

However, a number of audits have been carried out, ALL CONFIRMED THE ORIGINAL RESULTS.

Nope, only automatic recounts. To date the only large scale forensic audit in process is the one in Arizona that the Democrats have been fighting tooth and nail to block, sabotage and invalidate. We have a lot of Ghost ballots being revealed in Arizona, and in DeKalb county GA (a State Biden won by only 14,000 votes), they've discovered some 43,000 unlawful ballots were certified in the 2020 election.

And that's after 8 months of legal battles to begin an audit. Seems simple -- if Biden legit won, then he should be demanding audits to put the losing loser Trumpers in their place, yes?? Wouldn't it feel grand to point to definitive, transparent audit results that would immediately end all this speculation and mistrust and rumor mill??

And maybe, just maybe, the Chinese were concerned Trump would do something crazy because for FIVE YEARS the Democrats and the Media (but I repeat myself) have been screaming that Trump was an insane warmonger, an unhinged crazy man, a pee-soaked bedding Putin puppet!!!!

Can you please point out Trump's policies that give that belief credence? How about these actions --

Destroying ISIS and de-escalating the US presence in Syria?

Forging the first Arab-Israeli peace deals since the Camp David Accords?

Negotiating a settlement to largely withdraw the US from Afghanistan?

Negotiating an economic and peace deal between mistrustful Balkans nations??

Less war -- what a crazy man fer sure!!!!

And this whole focus on domestic power and the drive to undermine Trump, led the Democrats make the bizarre claim he was Putin's puppet, and they pumped up Russia as America's greatest threat 24x7 --Russia, Russia, Russia! This screwed up any attempts at productive rapproachment to positively engage Russia and keep Russia out of China's orbit. Instead this manic focus by the Democrats forced Putin into Xi's camp. And at the same time the protected China to the best of their abilities, fighting all attempts to address Xi's drive for hegemony. Such strategic arsehattery.

Tiger 73

In essence says:

Because we take Woodward at his word when he talks about Milley, we should also take his word when he talks about Trump.

Uh… no.

For the simple reason that Woodward is pushing an agenda, as he pretty much always has. He's never exactly been a paragon of unbiased journalism.

Come on.😉

I believe that Milley did the "right" thing, but it may not have been the "proper" thing.

But he has also politicized the Military. For that he MUST resign. The longer he stays in office and accepts accolades from the current CinC, the more he does more grave harm in politicizing the Military. He is being praised because the current CinC despises the former one. That cannot stand.
Actions have consequences, and even if he did what he thought was right, he still MUST resign.

The Military CANNOT be either Democrat or Republican. It must be neither.
Resign.

Because we take Woodward at his word when he talks about Milley, we should also take his word when he talks about Trump.

Uh… no.

For the simple reason that Woodward is pushing an agenda, as he pretty much always has. He's never exactly been a paragon of unbiased journalism.

Yet you trust him to tell you what Milley said and did.

In fact, based solely on the account of this "biased" journalist whom you don't trust, you've decided that Milley is a traitor.

Why? Why do you trust Woodward's account of Milley's phone calls with the Chinese?

In fact, based solely on the account of this "biased" journalist whom you don't trust, you've decided that Milley is a traitor.

Why? Why do you trust Woodward's account of Milley's phone calls with the Chinese?

Maybe 'cause Milley has confirmed it…

Maybe 'cause Milley has confirmed it…

People on this thread were calling Milley a traitor a full day before he confirmed it. You guys trusted the source: Woodward.

But OK, Milley's confirmation shows that Woodward is telling the truth, right?

But you don't trust him, because he's biased?

For example, do you trust Woodward's account of Trump's CIA director referring to Trump "acting out like a six-year-old" and throwing a tantrum? Or her quote that she was worried "We're on the way to a right-wing coup"?

Do you trust his account of Trump's Defense Secretary expressing his worries about Trump's sanity?

Garth in the Park

Do a little deep breathing.

In-between my breathing exercises I need to read up on the concept of "bias." It is remarkably flexible, and seems to consist mainly of:

"Anything that tells me what I want to believe, can be trusted. Anything that tells me what I don't want to believe, is obviously biased and can't be trusted."

Even when it comes from the same source, using the same methods.

SB yes. And many of us early on were saying IF Woodward is to be believed. But it happened.

It seems certain there will be Congressional hearings on this, with Miley under oath. He seems to me to be ripe for the fall guy, deserved or not, on Afghanistan and on this. I think there will be all the GOP and at least a few Dems who want to blame him for everything.

Garth in the Park

Dude. How about a reality check here?

I don't know how old you are, but I'm 57 and have lived through a couple of presidential elections.

I hated the result of 2008 and 2012.

I loved the result of 2016.

But each of those went by the same pattern all prior elections had. By about midnight est at the latest, we knew who had won.

This time, we also knew who had won.

Except about 1 am everybody said they stopped counting.

---

That's the level of nonsense my side's been dealing with ever since.

Oh. And by the way. We also found millions of ballots stuffed under Hunter Biden's laptop or some damn place. And, who'd a thunk it? Every single one was voting for Joe!

Truly amazing

Well. I imagine the above has cost me a few days in the dog house, but for God's sake, is there ever going to be an end to this lunacy?

Some things make sense. Others don't.

For God's sake, a gentleman admits when he's wrong.

Yikes!!

Gorgrat,
If you are going to comment on my posts, I would expect you to have the courtesy to at least read carefully what I say. You contend I said that if one believes what Woodward said about Milly, one should "believe what he said about Trump".
Stay with me while I try to draw you a picture. It is Milly's mindset that is the focus here--not Woodward's. It is what Milly believed about Trump--not what Woodward believed. Woodward, in his book, is reporting on what motivated Milly to take the precautions he did. Now you can assert, as you & others on this thread undoubtedly will, that Milly is lying about his assessment of Trump's mental status, while telling the truth about his call to Li. But it seems illogical to me that a decorated 4 star general, who has risked his life fighting in foreign wars for this country, would fabricate a total lie about his assessment of the president's mental status, just to provide an excuse to call a Chinese general & commit treason. Perhaps you can conjure up a motive for him to do that which won't defy logic & isn't based on wild speculation.

Perhaps it is the same thinking that persuades him that white supremacists are the main threat?

Gorgrat

I believe you believe what you are saying. I don't believe it. Now what? This is the real issue. How do we get out of this and still have a country?

Tortorella

To be honest, we probably don't. One of us believes he sees a rusted out '57 chevy. The other says it's a fire breathing dragon.

One makes infinitely better sense than the other, but neither will budge.

The answer? Hopefully all out civil war.

I say hopefully because the only other option is for the guy who sees the Chevy to capitulate to absolute lunacy, and, believe it or not, in the end that will be far worse.

Perhaps it is the same thinking that persuades him that white supremacists are the main threat?

Well, they were the main rioters and insurrectionists on January 6, so yeah.
BLM or Antifa never tried to overthrow the government.

I take it you were there, and saw all this personally?

Insurrectionists usually have, you know, GUNS and stuff.

Gorgrat, civil war would destroy us and give the world to the Chinese. And many of us have people we love on the other side. If you really mean what you wrote?

The type of weapons is irrelevant. They were urged to prevent a lawful government process conducted by elected representatives of the whole country. They threatened physical harm to elected leaders. And they had a lot of phones to record what they said and did.

Has there ever been such a vast video and audio record of such a major event in American history? When you see and here it, do you think this is about tourism? I can see what they are doing, hear their words…in the building they are controlling that is a symbol to the world.

Another war to save the Union? God forbid…too terrible to consider.

We have not yet seen the thousands of hours of footage that the government is holding. Why not? And the prosecutions are generally collapsing, except of those who are bullied into confessing. And there are lots of political prisoners being held without bail. The regime is acting like it is afraid.

link

Huh?

This does not change what we saw and heard. You cannot undo it. And you can believe that millions are afraid.

Millions are indeed afraid.

Destroying ISIS and de-escalating the US presence in Syria?

Forging the first Arab-Israeli peace deals since the Camp David Accords?

Negotiating a settlement to largely withdraw the US from Afghanistan?

Negotiating an economic and peace deal between mistrustful Balkans nations??

Less war -- what a crazy man fer sure!!!!

Those are all true …

Yes Legion, true. Not all perfect, but these are acievements.

The power of Denial is strong with some.
Are we going for a Reichstag Day today?

And again, all the libs totally ignore what I said regarding election night WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY THE SEMINAL ISSUE HERE, NOT JANUARY 6.

So, again:

After midnight, dems close down the polling stations. A billion votes nonetheless all turn up for Uncle Joe. We all get told to go home. Go to bed. Nothing to see hear.

This despite postal workers and poll workers testifying to the insanity of it all.

But, no, the craziness all spontaneously combusted on January 6. Where nobody did anything but protest.

But in a sense, you are right.

We are the cowards. We lost because we refused to fight. Hence my dragons and Chevys.

As I've said before. You either fight on your first day in the prison shower, or you'd better be resigned to letting the events of that day repeat every day.

What incentive have you given the boys to do anything else?

The conservatives are cowards.

They absolutely are getting what they deserve.

doc mcb

No. It would not destroy us. It would get a lot of us killed and cause a lot of suffering, but that's not the same thing as destroying us.

What is happening now is destroying us.

Yes Legion, true. Not all perfect, but these are acievements.

The truth is not always clean, smooth, etc.

The conservatives are cowards.

That can go both ways …

After midnight, dems close down the polling stations. A billion votes nonetheless all turn up for Uncle Joe. We all get told to go home. Go to bed. Nothing to see hear.

You don't think that was just the Red Mirage/Blue Shift that was expected? Not trying to convince you of anything, just wondering if you were aware of this?

link

Gorgrat, was the Roman Republic destroyed? Yes. The Roman Empire replaced it, and kept many of the same political FORMS, drained of their content. We are indeed well on the way to losing our republic and our freedoms.

But I agree with you about cowardice.

did the chinese believe miley?

That's a good question. I imagine they hold him in contempt, as I do.

Steve Wilcox

Are you telling me they didn't close the polls early? That they didn't suddenly find thousands upon thousands of mail in ballots all for Biden?

If you are, then again, 57 Chevy vs fire breathing dragon. I know what I saw. I know that what I saw differed dramatically from every other presidential election I saw.

And I know that it terrified the supreme court into looking the other way.