"HMS Surprise query" Topic
9 Posts
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green beanie | 04 Sep 2021 5:59 a.m. PST |
Was the HMS Surprise a Sloop of War or a frigate? I read the O'Brian books before I saw the movie "Master & Commander". In the books, HMS Surprise is a captured French corvette of 28 guns. That makes her a Sloop of War. In the movie she is listed as a 28 gun frigate. I had thought most frigates were of 36 or 38 guns. Also, French corvettes were not classed a frigates. I look forward to your thoughts and help to this question. |
rmaker | 04 Sep 2021 6:20 a.m. PST |
Frigate. She was an older ship, dating from when 28's were still classed thus. And since she was commanded by a post captain, she would never have been rated a sloop. Ship ratings between the French and British navies are a complicated subject. |
14Bore | 04 Sep 2021 6:21 a.m. PST |
I should know more about this than I do, the rigging is the key to terminology of ship type. From bare memory a frigate still has 3 masts square rigged. From Sea of Words This sixth-rate, 24-gun warship, originally the French Unite, was captured in the Mediterranean on April 20, 1796, by H.M.S. Inconstant and her name changed to H.M.S. Surprise. The Surprise was involved in a famous incident at Puerto Cabello, Venezuela, in 1799, when her Captain, Edward Hamilton, recaptured the former British ship Hermione |
stephen m | 04 Sep 2021 6:58 a.m. PST |
Sloops were also three masted. Brigs were two. I always thought frigates had guns on two decks or had decks above the gun deck (focsle and poop) while sloops had guns on a single deck with no deck above them. Not historically accurate but my rule of thumb. |
rmaker | 04 Sep 2021 11:41 a.m. PST |
Some brigs were sloops as well. Some were both at various times. Depended on the rank of the commanding officer. A sloop was commanded by a (Lieutenant and) Commander, a brig by a Lieutenant. As I noted above, with a Post Captain in command, Surprise had to be at least a post ship, but, due to her age, was still a frigate. Sometimes referred to by the cynical as a "" frigate. |
Blutarski | 04 Sep 2021 2:54 p.m. PST |
Every once in a while, Wikipaedia delivers the goods. Go here – link – for a complete and well-detailed story behind the modern replica vessel HMS Rose/HMS Surprise. She was berthed in Newport, Rhode Island for a number of years, during which time I was able to visit her on several occasions. Compared to USS Constitution, she struck me as a TINY ship. She was built to the (slightly modified) plans of the original HMS Rose – a British 3-masted square-rigged post ship which, according to Rif Winfield, was 449 tons burthen and carried 20 x 9lbrs on her upper deck. The Wiki site includes a very interesting story about how this ship was responsible for the making of the film "Master & Commander". Worth reading. B |
Blutarski | 04 Sep 2021 4:24 p.m. PST |
Make that "the original HMS Rose circa 1757 …" B |
Rick H | 07 Sep 2021 2:39 a.m. PST |
M. Blutarski, If you had been in Newport at exactly the right time, you could have visited Rose and also the schooner Providence. After seeing the tininess of Providence, I got a whole lot more respect for Rose! Then, up the road a bit was Constitution, which was just an entirely different dimension. Unfortunately, by the time I saw Victory, which should have really amazed me, I had lived aboard an aircraft carrier for a couple of years and my perspective was shot. :-) Best, Rick |
Blutarski | 07 Sep 2021 1:28 p.m. PST |
Hi Rick, Sadly missed (or fail to recall) visiting "Providence". My wife and I DID get to go aboard and visit the old 'fin de siècle' Robber Baron oceanic three-masted yacht "Coronet" at the International Yacht Restoration Society on Thames Street in Newport harbor before she was closed to the public and de-masted for a very lengthy restoration. It seems they have completed work on the hull and have her back in the water. 180ft in length IIRC. She as clearly very luxurious when new, but had a lot of sea miles on her before the museum rescued her. Go here – link B |
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