Tango01 | 30 Aug 2021 9:52 p.m. PST |
These numbers are staggering…
Armand
|
HMS Exeter | 30 Aug 2021 10:06 p.m. PST |
Maybe, in exchange for a better brand of Hummus, we could get one of the various Mullahs we have in prison to declare use of Western weapons and equipment to be Haram. |
Editor in Chief Bill | 30 Aug 2021 11:01 p.m. PST |
If they can't maintain it, it will all be junk soon. I heard they have more Blackhawks than Australia! |
backstab | 31 Aug 2021 3:33 a.m. PST |
Considering we reduced our blackhawks to a single squadron so the MRH90 could take it's place , yes , the Taliban do have more. The big question is how many are serviceable… probably not many |
Striker | 31 Aug 2021 3:51 a.m. PST |
The planes may be junk in the making but the ground vehicles shouldn't be hard to keep going. I'm sure someone would make parts for it. |
Barin1 | 31 Aug 2021 4:25 a.m. PST |
You're right – I've been often visiting Turkmenia in 2000s-2010s. At that time they had good relations with Iran, and the road between Iran and Asgabat was quite busy. I was shocked the first time I've seen Iranian trucks – classic American shiny stuff from 70s, still running and in good conditions. Later on, I've met a couple of Iranians at Oil&Gas conference, and they were openly talking how they were getting various spares via Turkey, or Pakistan. Therefore as long as USA is legally selling same or similar equipment to nearby countries, Taliban will have access ro spares. |
Stryderg | 31 Aug 2021 5:39 a.m. PST |
It's not so much the serviceability of it all, it's the fact that my tax dollars just funded some terrorists. How hard would it have been to not declare a specific date and start bringing some of that gear (and civilians, too) back to the US BEFORE pulling our troops out? |
arealdeadone | 31 Aug 2021 6:28 a.m. PST |
Those numbers are inaccurate- most of the Cessna 208s and Super Tucanos ended up in Uzbekistan or Tajikistan. There is no mention of around 50 tanks (T-55/62) and undisclosed number of withdrawn BMPs/BRDMs/BTRs confirmed as captured either. Also Taliban captured 8 withdrawn An-26/32 transports, 12 Mi-25/35 gunships and possinly 3 L-39 jet trainers. All of these were withdrawn in more recent times (forcibly replaced with American equipment) and may be still operable. Also Afghans know how to maintain Sovoet equipment so expect the old Soviet clunkers to be brought back to service. |
arealdeadone | 31 Aug 2021 6:36 a.m. PST |
Forgot to mention Taliban also captured 7 CH-46E Sea Knights that were left by State Department – these were disabled and left behind as to uneconomical to repatriate (1960s airframes). |
jedburgh | 31 Aug 2021 7:05 a.m. PST |
There is an interesting video on Youtube of the captured U.S equipment that the Vietnamese put to use. YouTube link
|
SBminisguy | 31 Aug 2021 8:26 a.m. PST |
According to a GOP presser, the US military and/or contractors left data on the computers abandoned at Bagram airbase, include personnel files and biometric data on Aghanis who worked for the US and/or ANG/ANA. Is there a point where incompetence crosses the line into malevolence?? |
Tango01 | 31 Aug 2021 3:59 p.m. PST |
At least they didn't keep any warships!… (smile) Armand
|
arealdeadone | 31 Aug 2021 4:11 p.m. PST |
jedburgh, Cool video. South Vietnamese haul was massive and far dwarfed the ANA. Eg number of aircraft captured was 877 (and a further 308 escaped). It was also mainly conventional capabilities as pointed out in that video. ANA had a lot of gear but it was still a third rate COIN force overall. There's a lot of idiots running around claiming Taliban are some sort of regional mega force but they obviously failed geography because Pakistan and Iran are massive conventional forces and Afghanistan's northern "Stan" neighbours feature a lot more firepower and have reasonably capable forces that have fought muhajadeen or in Iran's case probably Americans in Iraq and Syria. ----- And just noticed the figure of 22,000 Humvees – what a joke. Closer number is 8500 and some number of those were already lost! |
Tango01 | 31 Aug 2021 9:00 p.m. PST |
This Is What The U.S. Military Left Behind At Kabul Airport YouTube link
link
Armand |
20thmaine | 01 Sep 2021 4:36 a.m. PST |
Spare parts and maintenance may be a problem…. ….on the other hand Iran is said to still have airworthy F4s. Highly cannibalised and maybe not so many,but thought to be more than zero. |
Garand | 01 Sep 2021 9:45 a.m. PST |
Saying that we should have taken that equipment back makes the statement that we had zero confidence in the ANA's ability to defend itself, so lets sabotage them more. Then, afterwards, everyone would be wondering if the US delibrately sabotaged the ANA to fail, rather than as it is now, where they failed on their own merits. It also sends the message that the US is an unreliable ally. Damon. |
SBminisguy | 01 Sep 2021 10:43 a.m. PST |
According to numerous reports, the US Military also left behind 51 Service Dogs. |
Legion 4 | 01 Sep 2021 2:50 p.m. PST |
I think there was an American woman trying to get those service dogs along with some other locals canines out. Almost 200. She had all the proper paperwork, etc., all the pet crates, etc. for travel. The Taliban would not let her thru. Of course PETA is involved now. If the US Gov't left people behind I don't know how good these canines will fare. But now they may have to load the crates on trucks, etc. and try overland ? Not recommend IMO. As the Kabul airport is not ready to land aircraft, etc. However IIRC Qatar or the UAE or the Turks said they'd help get the airport back up and rolling. I'm sure they are not doing this out of the "goodness?" of their hearts(?). Again, with so many aircraft that flew out half empty these canines and their handlers could of filled those slots. But somehow someone thought letting the Taliban surround the airport was a good idea ? I like dogs better than people[yes, that includes some here😆]. Once the airport is up & running(?) maybe, just maybe along with 100s or 1000s(?) of humans that were left behind, these dogs & their handlers will get on a flight. It might a weeks though. And yes if I was running air ops. And it came down to leave some TMPers or the dogs. You better learn how to speak Pashtun … 🤩 |
Tango01 | 01 Sep 2021 4:43 p.m. PST |
Pentagon Denies It Left Military Dogs Behind in Afghanistan link
Russian TV Does A Tour Of Afghanistan's Kabul Airport YouTube link link Armand |
SBminisguy | 02 Sep 2021 8:36 a.m. PST |
The Biden admin just had Federal websites remove pages describing the military equipment that had been given to the ANA before the retreat. Af-what? Afghanistanistanistan? What is this place you're speaking of, I do not know of it and nothing happened there!
On Tuesday, OpenTheBooks.com founder Adam Andrzejewsk revealed that State Department officials recently told other federal agencies to scrub their websites of any official report with details about the $82.9 USD billion in US taxpayer funds that was spent arming and training Afghan forces over the past 20 years.Dozens of online links to reports, published by multiple agencies, are now dead. link |
John the OFM | 02 Sep 2021 10:36 a.m. PST |
Imagine the money to be saved in the Budget without A………n being a budget item any more! We can now fund cowboy poetry festivals again! San Francisco street artists! |
Legion 4 | 02 Sep 2021 11:59 a.m. PST |
Pentagon Denies It Left Military Dogs Behind in Afghanistan They and others in the gov't some in very high places have been denying a lot lately it seems … 🤔
We can now fund cowboy poetry festivals again! San Francisco street artists! 😆 |
Tango01 | 02 Sep 2021 3:39 p.m. PST |
|
arealdeadone | 02 Sep 2021 4:15 p.m. PST |
The Biden admin just had Federal websites remove pages describing the military equipment that had been given to the ANA before the retreat. It's horrifying how much modern governments do to remove accountability and transparency. It completely undermines democracy. (I am a public servant and I don't believe in keeping things like this or details of trade deals or plans affecting public services secret). |
Legion 4 | 03 Sep 2021 12:42 p.m. PST |
It's horrifying how much modern governments do to remove accountability and transparency. It completely undermines democracy. That seems to be the norm, sadly … With no end in sight. Probably why some don't vote … |
USAFpilot | 03 Sep 2021 4:04 p.m. PST |
It's a coverup in plain sight. Where is the msm on this? Oh never mind, the msm is part of the coverup. One of the most insidious powers of the corrupt media is to ignore stories. |
Thresher01 | 04 Sep 2021 2:02 a.m. PST |
Excellent point, Legion 4. Humans are over-rated. Jen Psaki confirmed on TV earlier this week that "we" (meaning the already horrendously overburdened American taxpayers) WILL be paying for, and/or helping to get their airports and airbases back into service. Seems to me we would want those to remain closed, so they can't more easily export terrorists from the region by air. Hell, I'd even shut down their roads and trails out of the country too, just for good measure, for the same region. I heard on the news tonight that we left so much equipment, that the cost of it equals that of 7 x Ford class, nuke carriers (the most expensive one in the inventory), and/or we could have bought 1,000 F-35s. I haven't verified those costs, AND perhaps they were referring to ALL the money we spent on Afghanistan from the start of the war. Still, it does give you an idea of how much we spent on them, and the conflict there, which IS appalling. of the 44,000 trucks/vehicles, apparently 22,000 were Humvees, which are enormously expensive, but even those pale in comparison to the aircraft left behind, which apparently even include C-17s (perhaps this claim is in error – I certainly hope so). How CAN the latter happen??? Either put pilots in them and fly them out, satchel charges in the cockpit and engines, or drop bombs/missiles from on high to obliterate them into scrap metal. Same goes for ALL the other aircraft and helos we left behind too, so they can't repair, trade, or sell those either, other than to a scrap metal dealer. |
Thresher01 | 04 Sep 2021 4:41 a.m. PST |
"region" should read "reason". |
Legion 4 | 04 Sep 2021 7:54 a.m. PST |
Taliban are some sort of regional mega force Yes they are a motorized light infantry force with limited armor, FA and Aircraft. However they seem to "excel" as guerilla/insurgents. They are not really a large threat to any of it's neighbors with this "mega" force. But they will have to cover those borders regardless. Which I'm sure manty do already. The biggest threat in A'stan is the tribal, ethic, warlordism, etc. nature and hatred for each other … We will probably see many of those vehicles KO'd by IEDs and the occasional RPG and RR. ______________________________________________________________ Psaki is not always "truthful" … She good at putting a spin to fit the narrative, agenda, etc. But is that not the standard for appointed & elected gov't officials ? I bet the WH cooks even lie ! "No that is not burned … it blacken Cajun Chicken." … ____________________________________________________________
include C-17s AFAIK we left no C-17s. But if we watch the footage, there is a C-130 with a flat tire near the runway. A State Dept. CH-46 in a hanger, it's blue with a white bottom. Like some WWII USN aircraft. IIRC they had 7 CH-46s but were very old. You can see we left the MRAPs that we saw the USMC or 82d using in the early photos. The Talis are driving around in them in recent footage. Somethin else to consider, were all those vehicles given to the ANA/ANP flown in ? How long would that take ? Whenever you send large amounts of vehicles. You load them up at a railhead. They are unloaded from the railcars and driven to a port and loaded on ships. The Ships go to another port, unloaded from ships. Then load on railcars and/or HETs(heavy equipment transports)[big flat bed trucks]. Then on to their destination(s) in A'stan or ? But there is no "friendly" ports to unload all those ships & vehicles. I think maybe Pakistan ? Money talks, even if it comes from infidels. But does Pakistan have the port to rail network? Again that is a lot of vehicles we gave the ANA/ANP. We were there 20 years. But a lot of those trucks, SUVs, HMMWVs, etc. looked pretty new. There was no way in Hell we could have got all those vehicles out even if we started way back in the Spring. The priority should/would have been civilians When Intel made it clear the Taliban, supported by Pakistan logistically, and sent 15,000(?) Pakistani and Arab fighters to help out in the offense. After all the Talis are the Pak's creation. Many of the stuff we gave the ANA/ANP was going to stay there. Unless we wanted to take them out with airstrikes. But that would be an entire other issue. There is an interesting video on Youtube of the captured U.S equipment that the Vietnamese put to use. The NVA were using 17 captured ARVN M-41s at the battle of An Loc in '72 … And there was much more … across the country. |
Thresher01 | 06 Sep 2021 5:06 a.m. PST |
I suppose the C-17 statement may have just been in error by a reporter who can't tell a tank from a Humvee. A pity we didn't evacuate ALL our stuff out over land, via Iran, and straight thru Tehran. That would have been really "interesting". Ah well, one can day-dream. Ah, Legion, you ARE being far too kind, and generous with the statement "Psaki is not always "truthful"……. In my experience from watching her "press conferences", almost everything she says is untrue, making Baghdad Bob envious of her skills at propaganda. |
arealdeadone | 06 Sep 2021 5:57 a.m. PST |
With regards to C-17s, Afghans had none. They had a measly 4 C-130H Hercules, of which 2 might have been overseas for maintenance. |
Legion 4 | 06 Sep 2021 9:44 a.m. PST |
Yes, no C-17s but yes C-130s. In the footage of the Kabul airport you can see one C-130 with a flat tire. It looks like that one belongs ANA's, etc. Ah, Legion, you ARE being far too kind, and generous with the statement "Psaki is not always "truthful"……. If I said what I wanted to say I'd certainly be DH'd. But she kind of reminds of someone giving a book report on book she never read … 😁 And she ain't the only one !!!! 🤔🤩
In my experience from watching her "press conferences", almost everything she says is untrue, making Baghdad Bob envious of her skills at propaganda. 😦😧😨😱🤯 "I'm Shocked ! Shocked I tell you !" … BTW … Wonder what old Baghdad Bob is doing today ? If he's still alive ? It seems many in gov't when they retire, etc., could have a great new career in writing fiction. 📕📗📘📙 Or in the circus … 🎪🤡 |
Thresher01 | 06 Sep 2021 2:23 p.m. PST |
I think I read he is dead, but he certainly has been eclipsed by the new, female master. The other guy talking about how "secure" our southern border is, is her understudy, and is pretty good at false hyperbole too. |
Legion 4 | 07 Sep 2021 10:59 a.m. PST |
Sad but true … she makes him look like an amateur. But it is not polite to speak ill of the dead, I've heard …☠ southern border Southern Border … ? we don't have no Southern border no more ! 🤠 |
alexpainter | 09 Sep 2021 7:05 a.m. PST |
The real scandal was that NO ONE US' gvt, in 20 yrs, never succeeded to persuade ,with ANY means,Pakistan to close their borders and end their support to these terrorists. How many billion dollars that treacherous country has received from the USA? Surely more than these invested in vets' care! |
Tango01 | 09 Sep 2021 10:00 p.m. PST |
Transfers of major arms to Afghanistan between 2001 and 2020 (SIPRI) link Armand |
Legion 4 | 10 Sep 2021 9:27 a.m. PST |
Pakistan to close their borders and end their support to these terrorists. So very true. The US has given the Paks a lot of $ forever, because they have nukes. To use on India… a MAD situation ? And other reasons as well, I'm sure, etc. … But the Paks created and support the Taliban. In this Taliban offensive the Paks provided Log, Intel, etc. As well as sending 15000 Pak and Arab troops/bodies/jihadis to assist & support the Taliban's conquest of A'stn. So why is the US still giving them anything? But a very hard time, as they are not our allies. They are sometimes referred to as "frienemies" … that is too generous IMO. |
Tango01 | 25 Sep 2021 9:24 p.m. PST |
Inside Afghanistan's Bagram Air Base, now under Taliban control link
Armand |
Legion 4 | 26 Sep 2021 11:15 a.m. PST |
Again … abandoning Bagram after pulling out all our troops before pulling out our civilians, plus not telling our allies we were leaving. Will go down in history as a biggest up as the defense of France in 1940, both Napoleon's & Hitler's invasion of Russia and Custer leaving his Gatling Guns in the Field Trains at the Little Bighorn. And yet some still don't get that it was a massive error for the US to leave Bagram … |
Tango01 | 07 Oct 2021 9:48 p.m. PST |
U.S. Weapons For Sale In Afghan Gun Shops link
link
Armand
|
Legion 4 | 08 Oct 2021 10:58 a.m. PST |
No surprise … They need more $ to cause torture, rape, murder, etc. |
Tortorella | 08 Oct 2021 12:23 p.m. PST |
We cant talk about the press secretary and the truth here unless you help us unravel thousand of statements from the Former Guy. I gave up after he told us that Washington's army secured the airports and rammed the ramparts during the Revolution. But I do agree with him that Frederick Douglass "has done an amazing job." Although he's been quiet lately. Lets face it, we need Eisenhower. And Legion, I think Hitler and Napoleon would disagree with you as they counted up their millions of casualties! We forget just how massive the German invasion of Russia was, or the size of the Grand Armee, during these world wars. As for the Taliban, I am more worried about their clandestine operations and DIY weapons than whether they know anything about how to use the stuff we left them. I feel like I am more likely to get beheaded by a sword than see them fly over in some broken down Blackhawks. |
Tortorella | 09 Oct 2021 8:08 a.m. PST |
Also, didn't we disable some of this stuff, especially the aircraft? Why didn't the Previous Guy and his people address this after they opened negotiations with the Taliban a year ago? Nobody could see this coming then either? |
Legion 4 | 09 Oct 2021 11:25 a.m. PST |
And Legion, I think Hitler and Napoleon would disagree with you as they counted up their millions of casualties! We forget just how massive the German invasion of Russia was, or the size of the Grand Armee, during these world wars. The took massive losses from the ranks of those massive armies … one of the reasons both lost. But I'm looking at it from student on military history not from the size of forces engaged/committed. But how those troops and assets were used. Numbers not withstanding. Smaller ops study are critical too. BTW, according to 23 & Me … my DNA says I'm related to on my Father's side. Always worth a laugh when I tell my friends !!! 😆 But … what if I really am ?!?!?!? 🤔 He'd probably be disappointed that I only made CPT … not Field Marshal or some high rank like GEN … 😮😯🙁 Also, didn't we disable some of this stuff, especially the aircraft? Yes some of the aircraft were disabled, but not all. You can see it in some of the footage when the Taliban were taking a walking thru of Kabul Airport. Can they repair them ? Do they need contractors, parts, etc. ? Why didn't the Previous Guy and his people address this after they opened negotiations with the Taliban a year ago? With the last guy, the USA's withdrawal was conditional to how the Taliban followed the agreements made during discussions with the US. At a number of levels. They violated some of those agreements. Some of their locations were struck, etc. The 2500 US troops at Bagram, etc. would stay along with about 7000 + NATO troops in country. Plus the ANA/ANP would have US CAS[from Bagram], advisors, etc. support. The Taliban saw the new Admin was not going to really do much of anything to stop their offensive ops to make A'stan a Sharia Law Talibanland. Predators sense weakness. So they struck and went on a general offensive in May-June of 2021, AFAIK. With log, intel, etc., support plus 15000 Pak & Arab jihadis coming from Pakistan. A nation the US still gives millions of $ to a year. They are not our friends. Remember they created the Taliban. And have a high population of religious fundamentalists. UBL was "hiding" there and no one in the Pak gov't knew about … ? The intel reports showed the Taliban was taking provinces at a very high rate. When seeing that the current admin took no effective actions until it was too late. Compounded by : Abandoning Bagram meaning among other things we had no CAS, aircraft, etc., on the ground. For CAS, etc., support Not telling our NATO and Afghan Allies we were leaving. And not evav'ing our civilians before the military … They did the opposite(?) … Could these "amateurish" decisions be made while ignoring their military & intel advisors, demonstrates very much how Not to do an evacuation ? The evac should have started in a calm orderly manner flying our civilians with helicopters from the Embassy. Starting in May-June. Not the cluster we saw at Kabul. Costing us lives and evacing many Afghans that had nothing to do with working for the USA. And leaving many US plus Afghanis that did work with the USA, civilians behind … With former Spec Ops Vets and NGOs, etc., still trying to get them out. With limited to no gov't assistance. No I will not agree … no one saw this coming. 'nuff said … |
Tortorella | 09 Oct 2021 1:25 p.m. PST |
Well, I can't argue with a CPT, especially once with such lofty connections! Lots of the Marshals were promtoted from the NCO ranks, very decent of Nappy, so you would have had a great shot at a Baton and fabulous wealth! I have come to agree with you on Bagram. We gave up all control of the situation once all our marbles were in one basket. It may have taken some resources to hold it, but we could have maintained a number of capabilities there that would have kept them off balance, helped with rescue, and the whole thing would not have been as much of a disaster. The Former Guy – No plan, no transition. Too distracted. But he also does not get the blame for the final mess.. That belongs entirely to the Current Guy, and still no explanation. Except for maybe McChrystal, I am a fan of nobody these last couple of decades. |
Legion 4 | 10 Oct 2021 10:19 a.m. PST |
Well, I can't argue with a CPT, especially once with such lofty connections! Got'a know people in high places … 😁 It may have taken some resources to hold it, The US sent 5800 to Kabul. The admin put a ceiling on how many troops that could be deployed. Again the elected and appointed at the very top giving the military a mission but tie one hand behind their backs. But we all took an oath to follow the legal orders of the POTUS, etc. Even if those making the orders are more motivated by others things than military effectiveness to get the mission they just gave JCS, etc. E.g. Don't forget Benghazi either. Or Somalia and Vietnam, for that matter … The Former Guy – No plan, no transition. Too distracted. But he also does not get the blame for the final mess.. That belongs entirely to the Current Guy, and still no explanation. Disagree … As I posted … With the last guy, the USA's withdrawal was conditional to how the Taliban followed the agreements made during discussions with the US. At a number of levels. They violated some of those agreements. Some of their locations were struck, etc. The 2500 US troops at Bagram, etc. would stay along with about 7000 + NATO troops in country. Plus the ANA/ANP would have US CAS[from Bagram], advisors, etc., support. IMO, The New guys didn't understand how to manage that, like many things … there is your explanation.
IMO … The new guy just wanted to check a block to say "Look I said I'd get us out of A'stan !" And give a victory/mission accomplished on 9/11. But as we see that did not happen. More about optics, politics than military reality of the situation. And the new guys were told what was happening as far back as May -June. That is all on them. There is where the crisis started. Not on the last guy's watch. Again predators sense weakness, confusion, etc. And take/took full advantage of it. But the new guys still keep blaming the old guy … I watch the news all the time. The blame is still put on the old guy. When again, IMO and many others the new guys, we reout of their league/depth. Didn't understand what really was going on in A'stan. And who the Talis/AQ & the Paks really are and still are. Only they now are in a better situation … A real competent leader takes the situation at hand and makes it better … not worse. I do think McChrystal was very good as well as Petraus … But that is a discussion for another time. |
Tortorella | 10 Oct 2021 3:21 p.m. PST |
IMO the old guy wanted the same box checked for himself in the election year. His people went for a deal with the completely unreliable Taliban and undercut the Afghans. It was a gamble. Neither the old or the new are military guys, but the new guys seems to have ignored expert assessment. There is no getting around what happened in the end. The new guy still needs to step up and take the heat for the final chapter no matter how we see the past year or so. Until that happens… but we know how it goes. |
Legion 4 | 11 Oct 2021 9:10 a.m. PST |
IMO the old guy wanted the same box checked for himself in the election year. Yes, the old guy did too … but it wouldn't have been handled so poorly, IMO. Neither the old or the new are military guys, but the new guys seems to have ignored expert assessment. Yes, but the new guy's decision cost the US too much in blood withdrawing, etc., as we did. As well as showing our allies [and enemies] we were not a good dependable ally. I.e. losing face and very sadly troops … Unnecessarily IMO. Not a good "optic", etc., from a political point of view. Adding another bad choice on top many other bad choices, again IMO … 'nuff said … |
Legion 4 | 13 Oct 2021 8:30 a.m. PST |
From Miltary.com : link
Sadly as long as the Taliban are in control, it will be a humanitarian crisis. It may have to fail & fall to start over. But that will cost a lot to the average Afghani … |
Tango01 | 20 Oct 2021 9:07 p.m. PST |
Taliban Gives Families of Suicide Bombers Who Attacked Coalition Soldiers $112 USD And Promises Land YouTube link
link Armand
|