"Can we please nuke ALL the finger pointing threads?" Topic

And I do mean ALL of them.
Isn't this The Miniatures Page?
The Ultramodern Board should not be free of "political" threads because of the current cluster going on now.
I admit that I am just as outraged as anyone by the stupidity going on now.
But if TMP has a policy of "no politics", let's stamp out EVERY comment thread about Afghanistan RIGHT NOW.
Screw whines of "censorship". There are plenty of sites that allow one to bellow outrage.
This site is allegedly about playing with toy soldiers. Let's remember that, and not shove outrage down the throats of others.

I'm just as outraged as anyone else, but this should not be the place for it.

Agreed.

The ultra modern board is pretty much mostly political by its very nature and has very little to do with gaming. Maybe it's this board that needs to be nuked, although it seems to be the most active board on TMP because of the politics of modern war.

I have also said this, a little differently . I asked Bill via one of the threads about politics then read the policiy. This is just not the place.

You can discuss military operations without getting political.

If you want to get political, join the discussions on The Blue Fez.

You can discuss military operations without getting political.

Not from what I've seen or done. I've participated in quite a few "political" discussions here. They're blatantly political.

War IS politics by other means, so I've read and been told.

What Thresher said. A thread on Lincoln and McClellan would be political, I suppose, but relevant for all of that.

And again, what is hard about just not reading stuff that offends you?

This was political, included name calling, "Scottish commie", comes to mind. The mud here was too thick. I have been guilty as well, no more. Thank you for the stifle button.

@doc mb "And again, what is hard about just not reading stuff that offends you?"

Because you don't know what will offend you until after you read it ? By then it's too late !

Hard not to get a little political with the topic of withdrawing from A'stan. It is happening now … top leadership decisions are part of the story… Yes ?
👈👉☝👆👇👍👎🤘🤙🖖

Now just because the Saints are openly screwing up…

What some are saying is please nuke any comments I personally disagree with. And I may post flowery lies from dubious news sources, but don't you dare try to correct what I have posted with the truth because it just may hurt my feelings.

Agree, Legion 4.

The ultramodern warfare board was split awhile ago into 'ultramodern warfare' and 'ultramodern gaming' boards for this very reason. It seems peculiar to now complain that the 'ultramodern warfare' board isn't restricted to 'gaming'.

I didn't think that an 'ultramodern warfare' board was to be restricted to either very tactical situations, hypothetical major power conflict or equipment/capability acquisition.

In the middle we have 'small wars'. It is possible to game these at a theatre level – I've been part of such a game, but that means including political, media, diplomatic, etc. factors. So, it's reasonable to discuss these issues.

With regards to the current situation in Afghanistan, one can hardly say the withdrawal operation was resounding success. It also seems to be the, unsuccessful conclusion to a 20 year mission. Reflecting on these two failures would also seem reasonable for an 'ultramodern warfare' board. I suppose the easy thing is to say that both were inevitable but that's hardly insightful. Looking at where things went wrong doesn't necessarily mean 'finger pointing' for the sake of 'finger pointing'.

As for the politics – I'm within a few months of retiring after nearly 36 years of a career in military operational reseach with a good part of that at the defence planning / strategic level, so I've had to serve governments of the left and right from a professional and, as much as possible, objective perspective. I'm also not an American, so I don't have much of an opinion US politics except where it affects my country or international affairs. So far, on this board, I've found it easy to recognize the politics and easy to read past the politics. If you can't, don't read the board or the threads that look like they'll have too much politics for your liking – for me it's actually a few ACW threads, but those are easy to recognize.

Another disclosure, I was part of something called the Cornwallis Group which was in existence for 19 years. It was an annual gathering of 30-40 people – military, defence analysts, diplomats, humanitarians, academics, etc. – several were high ranking officers (e.g., theatre commanders) or ambassadors. The gatherings were for a whole week to discuss irregular warfare, failed states, etc. So I do have – soon to be 'had' – a professional interest in the matter.

Yes, you are right Legion, and this board is apparently problematic to begin with on politics, though there are decent discussions.

But right now this reads like a news feed stoking blamer political outrage. Topic after topic, not much mention of the courage and professional conduct of the military, the regular people, there getting it done. One of history's biggest airlifts, an amazing display of capability and power. But we do not take much time out from the outrage to acknowledge this.

Instant blame is a media game. And that's political.

Perhaps you are right Shadoe, this board serves this function, and I don't have to read it.

And you are also right about the ACW board, I would add the AWI. I have engaged my stifle button accordingly.

As I posted on another thread :

"War is nothing but a continuation of politics with the admixture of other means."
― Carl von Clausewitz, On War

I think it's YOUR fault! Ahhh…that feels better…

What some are saying is please nuke any comments I personally disagree with. And I may post flowery lies from dubious news sources, but don't you dare try to correct what I have posted with the truth because it just may hurt my feelings.

Oh, stop being such a drama Queen.
This is supposed to be a site dedicated to playing games with toy soldiers.
I'm getting pretty tired of the three times a day "My hourly outrage!" threads from the usual suspects.
Would you do the same on a stamp collecting site? Hey, conquered nations that disappeared in a war have some exotic and rare philately!
Or how about a German Shepherd breeding site? Hey, those dogs are used in war!
In a Jane Austen study group?
Strippers of the Czech Republic Appreciation Society?
Authentic Carbonara? Hey, to some putting peas in carbonara is an act if war!

These finger pointing threads are all the same. Biden is incompetent and Trump is blameless. Rinse and repeat.

+1 John

Sorry I'm late. Where's the Strippers of the Czech Republic Appreciation Society site?

Now yer talkin!

-1 John

Well I've done it again. Ran across the Milley Resign post In Poll Suggestions and commented. Is there no end to this madness? What will the next post bring?

++John

John I have been on TMP since 2003 and I have a good idea of where you stand politically. If you had been making a bipartisan argument the whole time I could take this thread seriously. I believe your timing has more to do with who is in office… You cannot hide behind TMP policy to make yourself look reasonable with your long history…

With all due respect Dragon, John's past political preferences don't matter to me, he raises valid points.

It is 100% possible to discuss politics in a neutral, non-personal tone. You can even espouse one view over the other. You could even (!) make it gaming related.

If you want to talk about Afghanistan, what happened, why it happened, what someone should have done, you can do that without bringing up issues of right and wrong, how awful the human beings who disagree with you must be, and how strongly you feel about the whole thing. The first and third of those have their own boards, and the second needs to stay off TMP.

I'm not certain TBF if fulfilling its intended role. At least as I understand it. To my mind it degenerated into a US politics, left vs right, "you must be stupid or evil". It's not the place to take discussions of legit TMP topics that go beyond gaming.

I believe laying down a lot of rules always leads to these problems. As soon as you say "you can this but not that" you get half the people breaking the rule and the other half quibbling over the rule. This might be a place to employ "yes, and" thinking, and say "you can talk about gaming in the gaming boards and when you want to talk about opinions and feelings you can do it over here." That way the people who want to stick to gaming can do so, and the people who want to debate politics can also have their way. We are pretty close to having a situation like this, closer than most of the internet, but not quite.

Totorella if you had been the author it would have been more valid.

These finger pointing threads are all the same. Biden is incompetent and Trump is blameless. Rinse and repeat.

If my math is correct, it looks like almost half the country felt that same way during the previous administration, but with the partisanship reversed.

If a readers feelings get that hurt (the worst offense to humanity in today's world) by reading something that they can't agree with, or, engage in with rational thought, then don't look at the post.

I say we randomly point fingers at whomever posted last!

Point at whoever is standing behind you.

"Point at whoever is standing behind you."
So it's all my dogs fault? That sneaky little bastard.

Bill, why don't YOU just move all these threads to the Blue Fez?

Calling someone else a drama Queen! That takes guts. When a certain person left TMP in a huff many years ago there was an immediate and sustained reduction in drama. Now that we have been graced by his return and prolific posting, it seems the daily dose of drama has increased. Interesting.

Left in a huff? No. I was blatantly disrespected by The Editor.
Sorry you see it differently.
Not that I care what you think.

Er… well, at least this is not political.

"Left in a huff? No. I was blatantly disrespected by The Editor…."

Did he apologies to you?….

Armand

Left in a huff? No. I was blatantly disrespected by The Editor.

Was that the first time or second time you left? Or both?

Just curious.

First time. Second time was a fair cop. I don't remember the third. The 4th once again had me in a righteous blaze of glory, but again a fair cop.

So it's all my dogs fault? That sneaky little bastard.

She's sleeping a few feet away from me ? She is only 10 lbs. ? But if you ps her off she will bite ya ! But otherwise she is blameless … AFAIK …

I condemn all dogs who might have been involved in the conspiracy to…er whatever.

Should Macinehead's dog be fired? Let's have a poll. I say no, he was just trying to help.they all are.

John etal, maybe the answer is to rename the board to make its actual subject matter clearer. I don't want to see political discussions on TMP, I get enough of that from other sources. I want to read interesting discussions about post WWII conflicts. Also, I don't think I've ever seen a discussion become overtly political on Then Lead Adventure Forum's "Conflicts that cam in from the Cold". It covers essentially the same ground.

My dog wants me to feed her now … she is again … without guilt …

"First time. Second time was a fair cop. I don't remember the third. The 4th once again had me in a righteous blaze of glory, but again a fair cop."

Now I understand why you are so angry sometimes … (smile)

Armand

Tempest in a tea pot. If you don't like the topic, don't read it. Ain't rocket science.

I think nnascati is right about a new board for clarity. I feel that right now this board is about political agenda, not just politics related to modern war. Its not just that this has nothing to do with miniatures. It feels like its promoting a political point of view in addition to the military commentary.

I think its difficult to avoid politics when we play wargames. Eventually we will talk about the right and wrongs of the reason(S) why a particular war started or its motivation.